What Camera to buy? - Page 2

**Gambit7** · 06-25-2007, 09:47 PM

eheheh... I've been out of the optics game for a while now. My astrophotography setup is collecting dust. It's a helluva lot of fun to learn about though with a lot of jargon like p8triot just spewed.

Actually, there are many different varieties of ccd. Not all are per pixel, some are 3ccd combos. Some are done post-process and some take 3 photos each separately filtered, thereby using the entire chip per color channel. And there's a bunch of different ways they handle color on single-chip designs.. it's not cut and dry. BUT, like I said - i've been out of the game a while so I've gotta brush up. Plus, I was more into film. Film media is still king.

ED lenses are the way to go with small aperture digicams. With less aperture comes more chromatic abbheration along with spherical, especially with high levels of zoom at the edges of the image-frame. My little ED-coolpix takes better pics than most other small cams because of this. Heck, with a good ED/flourite lense you just about have unlimited zoom (light dependant). Anyways, I digress.

Like I said, you really cant get much better then a skilled photoshop user with a specced out Canon-10D in their hands. I've seen some setups with peltier coolers even installed in them for long exposures. And right now, your only real expense will be lenses if you so choose. So I say poop on all those newer cams unless they're HD camcorders. Use the money saved for lenses, flashdrives, a laptop, HDD space, strobes, batteries, etc.

If you want medium format, then buy a Hasselblad or Pentax and take REAL photos - you'll just be stuck with film.

But affordable CCD still aint close to med. format yet. And generations away from large format. And with the money saved THERE, you can buy yourself an uber film scanner and still blow away most CCD cams. Print those bishes to slide and drumscan away at resolutions that'd blow your mind.

**P8riot** · 06-25-2007, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gambit7

eheheh... I've been out of the optics game for a while now. My astrophotography setup is collecting dust. It's a helluva lot of fun to learn about though with a lot of jargon like p8triot just spewed.

Yeah, I can spew, can't I?

I forget about the Jargon.. been outta practice - I hope it didn't tick anyone off, like I was a 'know it all'. Really, I don't know much about amateur equipment, just the core engineering. Mostly pro and pro-am stuff is what I know - mainly because it hasn't changed a whole lot in the last few years.

Seriously, if you are interested in making a good purchase decision on this subject there are 3 things to know..

FIRST: Get the B&H Digital Photography Sourcebook, published once a year.

SECOND: Handle the equipment, whether you are going to buy it at the store or not.

THIRD: Listen to ME! DOH! Just kidding.. I mean listen to your FRIENDS, look at your friends actual results

Cheers!

**Gambit7** · 06-25-2007, 11:04 PM

Cool optical jargon = fun. Not possible to tick people off discussing it.

IMO though, I'd rather see a $2000 lens on a good $500 CCD or med. format film camera then the other way around. This way you're not optically limited. These days, you buy expensive cams with crap for lenses. Then people start blaming the recording media for the flaws, touting "you need more MP.." bah!

BTW fetterman... what are you gonna use this camera for exactly???

**P8riot** · 06-25-2007, 11:14 PM

Now see.. shoot.. I +repped you for the other post, I can't do it again.

IMO, Canon Image Stabilization lenses are fantastic.. To me the ideal setup for pro-am would be a mid-range Canon body with an IS lens capable of a large aperture.

When I get back into it, that'll be what I get (right now). Nothing against Nikon.. they are heavier though.. and the arthritis in my 'trigger finger' doesn't like it.

**Sarcoma** · 06-26-2007, 12:47 AM

I know you said $1300 was a budget buster but...I jumped on a D80 and ive no regrets at all, Its one dam fine camera.
Took a little sweet talk and other favors to the wife.

Sarcoma

**sgt fetterman** · 06-26-2007, 01:04 AM

Gambit7: I shoot landscapes, urban buildings, nature outdoorys stuff mostly. my cat and teenagers on and off. Oh and I love to do night shots and B/W ones.
Like say I am at the farm and the one of the tractors is across the road/behind the barn or whereever, getting the snot worked out of it plowing/corn chopping/haylige chopping, bleching a nice thick smog of diesle smoke. I'll shoot that. the frieght train rumbleing by with triple engines, old planes at the airport, stuff like that. pictures in the parks of different things. at the beach, yea I take the sneak shot of the awsome binki babe too

at times, zoomed in with my 500mm tele.
I just figure that with digital my cost will be cheaper, as sometimes I screw up royaly and there goes a roll or more of 36 xp. film. Plus I could edit on the fly, and not pay proccsing fees anymore.
Like at the airport, I could bring my tablet and down load the digi card to it and choose right then what I want to keep and see if something would look better shot differently.
I will still keep my film SLR and still will use it for night shots.

P8riot: the guy in sales at B&H said canon has better glass slection but Nikon was easyer to use. We talked about the Nikon D40x, he said I would be better off going with the D80 as it would be around longer, meaning the D40x would be out dated quicker and does not have much of a slection of glass for it.
So I still am researching, I have right now just over $1000.00 saved for a new camera and extras like a high speed 2 gig card and spare battery. An extra glass would come later.
I don't go higher then 8X10 prints, but like P8riot said, the higher MP the better the finished product will look when it's been cropped.
I'll order the source book in the morning . I don't know much about digital cams so I hope ya all can help me get something that will be usefull for a long time and one I can grow with.

Thanks so very much

**sgt fetterman** · 06-26-2007, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarcoma

I know you said $1300 was a budget buster but...I jumped on a D80 and ive no regrets at all, Its one dam fine camera.
Took a little sweet talk and other favors to the wife.

Sarcoma

The guy at B&H said I would most likey be better off with the D80, but I am open to all suggestions. if I do go with that, (and it seems like a excellent system) it will have to wait till the end of the year, only got $1000.00 saved, and knowing my two teenagers, if they find out I been saving money up, they'll think of a must have something for me to spend it on them.
B&H has a very nice D80 kit with two 2 giger extreme II SD cards, two glasses for around 1,169.95 http://tinyurl.com/2x9qx5

**Gambit7** · 06-26-2007, 01:30 AM

some cheapo d80 deals:
http://www.usaphotonation.com/search...FRSkgQodRUpBDw

Like I said... the cost is in the lense

throw THIS badboy on there with an adapter:
http://www.takahashiamerica.com/cata...b923da0a778d12

Be a photo-god!

**Apophis** · 06-26-2007, 08:48 AM

Here's a link to the pics I took at the airshow. These are not the original high-res images, but if anyone would like an un-watermarked version of any of the high res images they like, let me know and I'll upload them.

http://www.tacticalsites.com/~apophis/pics/airshow

Steeler · 06-26-2007, 09:36 AM

Yeah, the selling point of the D80 is the 18-135mm lens. I'm saving up for one of those.

Edit: Apo: Wow.

**Apophis** · 06-26-2007, 09:38 AM

What would you guys recommend for a very compact non-SLR digital? I want to get something that's ultra portable but with good quality for those times that I don't want to carry the Canon XT around.

**P8riot** · 06-26-2007, 09:49 AM

I use a Canon G5 a lot, and the Gseries has always been a real good performer.. even got some great airshow shots with it myself. The G's are a little big.. but.. not so bad.

icky · 06-26-2007, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apophis

What would you guys recommend for a very compact non-SLR digital? I want to get something that's ultra portable but with good quality for those times that I don't want to carry the Canon XT around.

My sister has a Canon SD series which is great. The SD700IS is pretty sweet for a small point and shoot.

**GhostintheShell** · 06-26-2007, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apophis

What would you guys recommend for a very compact non-SLR digital? I want to get something that's ultra portable but with good quality for those times that I don't want to carry the Canon XT around.

This is such a deja-vu, I just went through this. Even though we have the full size digital SLR we went out and grabbed a lower cost compact Nikon point and shoot. We picked up one with 8mp, image stabilization and a good quality video mode. I have been shooting my daughters gymnastics with our D70 for stills and using the point and shoot in video mode to grab fantastic little videos of her specific gym events. I have been making dvd's of her competitions with the videos and they are better than our sony (non-hd) camcorder. I also love to have the small camera with me on business trips to grab shots of cool stuff I come across.

I have to say that even thought the point and shoot is 8mp, the 5.1mp D70 shots blow it away in terms of picture quality and being able to override settings to get the shot composure you might be after. MP's aren't even close to everything when you are camera shopping.

**Rincewind** · 06-26-2007, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gambit7

some cheapo d80 deals:
http://www.usaphotonation.com/search...FRSkgQodRUpBDw

Be VERY, VERY wary when buying your camera equipment online! Definately check out resellerratings.com to get the lowdown on the store you might purchase from. For instance, USAphotonation.com has horrendous customer feedback. It's below a 1 out of 10!

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/USA_Photo_Nation

If the price is too good to be true. Then it is. Also be on the lookout for shops that will try to up sell you!

06-25-2007, 09:47 PM	#16 (permalink)
Gambit7 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Hollywood, FL Age: 31 Posts: 1,882	Re: What Camera to buy? eheheh... I've been out of the optics game for a while now. My astrophotography setup is collecting dust. It's a helluva lot of fun to learn about though with a lot of jargon like p8triot just spewed. Actually, there are many different varieties of ccd. Not all are per pixel, some are 3ccd combos. Some are done post-process and some take 3 photos each separately filtered, thereby using the entire chip per color channel. And there's a bunch of different ways they handle color on single-chip designs.. it's not cut and dry. BUT, like I said - i've been out of the game a while so I've gotta brush up. Plus, I was more into film. Film media is still king. ED lenses are the way to go with small aperture digicams. With less aperture comes more chromatic abbheration along with spherical, especially with high levels of zoom at the edges of the image-frame. My little ED-coolpix takes better pics than most other small cams because of this. Heck, with a good ED/flourite lense you just about have unlimited zoom (light dependant). Anyways, I digress. Like I said, you really cant get much better then a skilled photoshop user with a specced out Canon-10D in their hands. I've seen some setups with peltier coolers even installed in them for long exposures. And right now, your only real expense will be lenses if you so choose. So I say poop on all those newer cams unless they're HD camcorders. Use the money saved for lenses, flashdrives, a laptop, HDD space, strobes, batteries, etc. If you want medium format, then buy a Hasselblad or Pentax and take REAL photos - you'll just be stuck with film. But affordable CCD still aint close to med. format yet. And generations away from large format. And with the money saved THERE, you can buy yourself an uber film scanner and still blow away most CCD cams. Print those bishes to slide and drumscan away at resolutions that'd blow your mind. __________________

06-25-2007, 11:04 PM	#18 (permalink)
Gambit7 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Hollywood, FL Age: 31 Posts: 1,882	Re: What Camera to buy? Cool optical jargon = fun. Not possible to tick people off discussing it. IMO though, I'd rather see a $2000 lens on a good $500 CCD or med. format film camera then the other way around. This way you're not optically limited. These days, you buy expensive cams with crap for lenses. Then people start blaming the recording media for the flaws, touting "you need more MP.." bah! BTW fetterman... what are you gonna use this camera for exactly??? __________________

06-25-2007, 11:14 PM	#19 (permalink)
P8riot Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bradenton, FL Age: 37 Posts: 2,636	Re: What Camera to buy? Now see.. shoot.. I +repped you for the other post, I can't do it again. IMO, Canon Image Stabilization lenses are fantastic.. To me the ideal setup for pro-am would be a mid-range Canon body with an IS lens capable of a large aperture. When I get back into it, that'll be what I get (right now). Nothing against Nikon.. they are heavier though.. and the arthritis in my 'trigger finger' doesn't like it. __________________ Dungeons and Dragons Online; Thorgaard, Thaumiel and Mahblung EVE Online Captain Thorgaard OHern; skipper of the Battlecruiser "Jane Says.." Pirates of the Burning Sea; Pirate Thorgaard O'Hern Age of Conan Cimmeria; Tharashk, Thaumiel, guild Ars Tactika

06-26-2007, 12:47 AM	#20 (permalink)
Sarcoma Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: San Francisco Age: 36 Posts: 525	Re: What Camera to buy? I know you said $1300 was a budget buster but...I jumped on a D80 and ive no regrets at all, Its one dam fine camera. Took a little sweet talk and other favors to the wife. Sarcoma __________________ Sarcoma.

06-26-2007, 01:04 AM	#21 (permalink)
sgt fetterman Join Date: Feb 2007 Age: 47 Posts: 386	Re: What Camera to buy? Gambit7: I shoot landscapes, urban buildings, nature outdoorys stuff mostly. my cat and teenagers on and off. Oh and I love to do night shots and B/W ones. Like say I am at the farm and the one of the tractors is across the road/behind the barn or whereever, getting the snot worked out of it plowing/corn chopping/haylige chopping, bleching a nice thick smog of diesle smoke. I'll shoot that. the frieght train rumbleing by with triple engines, old planes at the airport, stuff like that. pictures in the parks of different things. at the beach, yea I take the sneak shot of the awsome binki babe too at times, zoomed in with my 500mm tele. I just figure that with digital my cost will be cheaper, as sometimes I screw up royaly and there goes a roll or more of 36 xp. film. Plus I could edit on the fly, and not pay proccsing fees anymore. Like at the airport, I could bring my tablet and down load the digi card to it and choose right then what I want to keep and see if something would look better shot differently. I will still keep my film SLR and still will use it for night shots. P8riot: the guy in sales at B&H said canon has better glass slection but Nikon was easyer to use. We talked about the Nikon D40x, he said I would be better off going with the D80 as it would be around longer, meaning the D40x would be out dated quicker and does not have much of a slection of glass for it. So I still am researching, I have right now just over $1000.00 saved for a new camera and extras like a high speed 2 gig card and spare battery. An extra glass would come later. I don't go higher then 8X10 prints, but like P8riot said, the higher MP the better the finished product will look when it's been cropped. I'll order the source book in the morning . I don't know much about digital cams so I hope ya all can help me get something that will be usefull for a long time and one I can grow with. Thanks so very much

06-26-2007, 01:30 AM	#23 (permalink)
Gambit7 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Hollywood, FL Age: 31 Posts: 1,882	Re: What Camera to buy? some cheapo d80 deals: http://www.usaphotonation.com/search...FRSkgQodRUpBDw Like I said... the cost is in the lense throw THIS badboy on there with an adapter: http://www.takahashiamerica.com/cata...b923da0a778d12 Be a photo-god! __________________

06-26-2007, 08:48 AM	#24 (permalink)
Apophis Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Rhode Island, USA Age: 35 Posts: 8,858	Re: What Camera to buy? Here's a link to the pics I took at the airshow. These are not the original high-res images, but if anyone would like an un-watermarked version of any of the high res images they like, let me know and I'll upload them. http://www.tacticalsites.com/~apophis/pics/airshow __________________ Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

06-26-2007, 09:36 AM	#25 (permalink)
Steeler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Taxachusetts Age: 30 Posts: 2,912	Re: What Camera to buy? Yeah, the selling point of the D80 is the 18-135mm lens. I'm saving up for one of those. Edit: Apo: Wow. __________________

06-26-2007, 09:38 AM	#26 (permalink)
Apophis Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Rhode Island, USA Age: 35 Posts: 8,858	Re: What Camera to buy? What would you guys recommend for a very compact non-SLR digital? I want to get something that's ultra portable but with good quality for those times that I don't want to carry the Canon XT around. __________________ Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

06-26-2007, 09:49 AM	#27 (permalink)
P8riot Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bradenton, FL Age: 37 Posts: 2,636	Re: What Camera to buy? I use a Canon G5 a lot, and the Gseries has always been a real good performer.. even got some great airshow shots with it myself. The G's are a little big.. but.. not so bad. __________________ Dungeons and Dragons Online; Thorgaard, Thaumiel and Mahblung EVE Online Captain Thorgaard OHern; skipper of the Battlecruiser "Jane Says.." Pirates of the Burning Sea; Pirate Thorgaard O'Hern Age of Conan Cimmeria; Tharashk, Thaumiel, guild Ars Tactika

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