Cpt.Destructo

I recently read one of UBI's PR people saying they have no plans for Modding Tools.
Yet GRIN said different before that.

anyone know if there's been any confirmation on Mod tools yet? It's the only way I'm buying it....

__________________

dawolf

Thats what the official UBI GRAW MP Q&A says:

__________________

Cpt.Destructo

Bah...:/ There goes that game. Without an SDK nowadays the life of a game is short....Man, that is so lame.

__________________

TychoCelchuuu

What exactly did you want in terms of an SDK? What mods were you expecting for GRAW that would not be possible on another engine?

__________________
|TG-Irr|TychoCelchuuu

Cpt.Destructo

It's not so much about what can be done on other engines. Modding has always been the lifeblood of online games. Especially nowadays.

Battlefield 1942 would NEVER have lasted as long as it has (and it's still played today) had there not been a thriving modding community. Half-Life would not be around right now had it not been for such a big modding community.

New maps are fine. But full conversions are really the life blood of a game.

__________________

TychoCelchuuu

How many mods do you play for Ghost Recon? Falcon 4.0? Operation Flashpoint? Call of Duty or Call of Duty 2? SWAT 4? America's Army? These are all games Tactical Gamer supports, these are all games with a robust online component, and these are all games that have no SDK or limited SDK support.

__________________
|TG-Irr|TychoCelchuuu

Strag

Frostbite v1.3, Tactical Gamer v3.0, Coop Pack 1


Wolfsbane's Realism Mod, Tactical Gamer Weapons, and we're currently evaluating user-made maps for use on our server


We're currently evaluating SSF Realism Mod v3.0, and we're also considering some user-made maps for use on our server


I think the ability to mod a multiplayer game is key to its longevity.

Cpt.Destructo

Hey, funny you should mention SWAT 4...I was considering getting the game. I didn't see a planetSWAT website...so wasn't sure how big or even if it HAD a modding community. Seems like it would be a blast in MP with different game modes. (other than just co-op)

__________________

Strag

Coop SWAT 4 at TG is a blast -- check here for more info.

xTYBALTx

I think Tycho's point was that all of these games have had succesful mods without SDK tools.

I don't know anything about any of this, don't even know what SDK is, but I'm pretty sure that's what he was saying.

__________________
Current Tybalt theme song: Mason v. Princess - Perfect

Strag

Ah, then yes, I can definitely dig it. Many games, even without an official SDK (Software Development Kit), can and have been modded by resourceful folks in the gaming community. The original DOOM did not have an official SDK, and yet it was a highly modded game, with people outside of id actually writing their own level editors (DEU, anyone?) for it. Mappers from the DOOM and Quake days were recognized and hired by id, Valve, and others, and they've made some of the great games we enjoy today.

TychoCelchuuu

Yeah, just because GRAW lacks an SDK does not doom it forever to the bargain bin, never to be played again.

__________________
|TG-Irr|TychoCelchuuu

Turbo

It might not doom it forever but it does make you think about how long the game will last before getting repetitive. I myself played the demo and I dont like a lot about the game. So not having an SDK available makes me think twice about getting the game because they might not be able to mod the stuff that I think need modded.

I enjoy playing the original GR more then GRAW because of the mods and the open maps. Ill wait to see if they can create open area maps before I buy the game because I dont like being forced where to go and I fear the game will get to repetitive after a few weeks.

We will see, I am still on the fence but the no SDK kit didn't help much. I dont want to buy a game that will get repetitive after 1 week of playing. Plus the no dedicated server support kills it too, if they release that then Ill probably get the game.

__________________
Ikariam.com: World Alpha: Capitol: Sacoma [76:80], Marble
Ikariam.com: World Alpha: Colony: CodyTron [64:82], Wine

munchkin

About 3 - 4 gigs worth. The modding community is huge, and an integral part of keeping the game alive years after its release.

__________________

=Sarc=

An SDK is sometimes a good boost to a game's moddability. SWAT4 has a primitive SDK but it's based on the UT engine, which is a moddable engine by nature. Another UT based game is Raven Shield. It shipped with a map editor like SWAT4 did. It's pretty much the version the devs used because they have to mod UT's map editor to do the specific tasks for their games.

Ghost Recon is also a modular engine. If you've modded for GR, you know how easy it is to add content to the game. In fact, just looking at the directory structure of GR, it's easy to see how content is organized. However, good modding support for GR didn't really come about until its first expansion when Photoshop plugins and documents were released.

OFP is extremely moddable by the fact it was designed to handle more content for use in military training. If OFP couldn't have new scenarios added easily, would military organizations be using it for training soldiers? Hence, no SDK required.

Now, an SDK may not instantly give life to a game. Raven Shield is one example. It did have a primitive SDK although most would not really classify it as one. It was called the Operative SDK, which basically allowed one to add new skins. Also, the use of a highly moddable engine didn't mean the game could be modded to death. In fact, Raven Shield has been a very difficult game to mod. Many had problems with each patch destroying compatibility and causing mayhem to modders trying to make their mods compatible with new versions. There are only a couple of good mods and most of them are limited to not having access to decompiled engine code, which should have been included in a true SDK. The same goes for SWAT4 if one wants to truly do anything different with the engine.

My initial impression of GRAW's moddability is zero at the moment. Most of the game content is bundled (yes, in the bundle directory) in one file. This means modders are screwed without a tool to read and write this type of file. Either GRIN has to give us a tool or some brilliant modder has to decode the bundle file structure. It also means it may be difficult for modders to update content in successive version of a mod. It could possibly mean releasing this entire file again just to update or add a few small files.

For GRAW's expansion capability, it is likely that an expansion would be easy to implement. The devs have all the tools and they just have to add some code to read another bundle file.

__________________
JO Guides & Tutorials
Team Element - It's who you game with.