luna

So I'll bite the bullet and bring this up. I believe it is in our best interest to reinstate our classic "3 raid rule", meaning you must attend three of our raids before becoming eligible for loot. There are a million modifications on this idea- three weeks, two weeks, 5 raids, etc. I believe that it is respectful for those who came before the new guy to at least suspend rolling rights until they are at least established as a platoon member who plans to stick around. I hate seeing new folks come in, raid once, get loot we've been working on for a long time, then leave the guild all within a week, and I think it's contrary to the sort of respectful decorum that we as a guild are best known for.

Gaviin had mentioned that he would want consensus on this issue from the platoon before issuing any official decision. So, what are your thoughts? Is a 3-raid rule in our best interest for protecting our assets and interests? Let's talk it out here to give Gaviin and Talara some material to mull over.

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Resurgent's New Motivational Motto:
"Now train harder! Live inside your character! If it dies, YOU DIE! Focus!"

Jesus had a soulstone.

Sular

As a new raider (who's spent his raiding career passing on loot :P) I have no issues with a 3-raid rule (or whatever the modification might be). The rule is completely fair, in my opinion, and waiting until your fourth raid isn't exactly a long time to wait. Plus, with focus on progression, we should be downing bosses left and right, giving everybody ample opportunity for loot

Drewidism

I think 3 raids sounds like a great idea in a large group that is constantly taking on new members.

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THUNDERHORN:
Tolah - 70 Human Combat Rogue | Vencent - 70 Human Holy/Disc Priest | Mashiek - 70 Human Affliction/Demonology Warlock
Drewidism - 70 Night Elf Feral Druid | Mageweave - 70 Gnome Ice Mage | Mestis - 61 Night Elf BM Hunter
Resarah -60 Human Protection Paladin | Cathenzo - 46 Gnome Fury/Arms Warrior | Shammypoop - 52 Draeni Enhancement Shaman

LOTHAR:
Tolah - 70 Night Elf Combat Rogue

Aegyn

I agree with pretty much everyone so far, but especially sular's points! A few raids isn't so long to wait, considering...and while I absolutely despise the DKP system, I do believe that if the choice is between someone who's been there for months on end, versus someone where we asked them to fill in, or we're trying them out in the platoon: the vet gets the loot in my opinion.

That's my two cents,

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Aestryd 70 Prot Pally
Epimetheus 70 Feral Druid
Yuusei 70 Enhancement Shaman
Camsmule 70 Fury/Prot Warrior (yes, it's my bank...no sniggering)
Aegyn 70 Holy Priest
Shyff 70 Arcane Mage

"The real-life equivalent of WoW tanking is to pick a fight with a rabid pedophilic cannibal and try to keep his attention while a pack of first-graders stab him to death with a spork."

Muirc

Thanks for stepping up luna.

I was trying to setup a poll but alas I don't have the permission or don't know how to do so.

Can one of the officers set a poll up as an anonymous way to vote on this? Just thought you'd get a better response.

I'm all for restoring the 3 raid rule or any form of it. I think it's only fair.

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"Remember that all things are only opinions and that it is in your power to think as you please."

vee

You might as well start using DKP. It gets to that point that people feel that who are casual raiders (once a week or every other week) shouldn't get the gear that other people work towards (repeated wipes, learning the fight with the group etc.)

I honestly don't care, sure I'd like new loot, but I have always looked out for those who could use it more. Would I like for someone who just joined the group or is there helping out for the night to get loot that Resurgent members get? Probably not, I'd like people who I know are going to continue putting 100% into the fights to get the gear to help the rest of us experience more higher level content.

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Delectable - 70 Druid
Nymphai - 70 Rogue
Meepmeep - 70 Warlock

Aegyn

Del, I agree with your second paragraph completely, and in it I see the viewpoint of everyone else posting here so far. I'm also a bit confused; I don't think anyone is thinking of excluding casual (but committed raiders), I think the main issue is making sure that we don't get a person who comes in, grabs a piece of loot that a lot of people have been working towards for months (or weeks) and then likely never come again.

Basically, I see this as a way to prevent abuse of the fairly open rolling system by greedy players that have no real intention of contributing. I don't see this as a way of excluding those that will be coming back and contributing on a regular basis (even if not *every* run).

I guess I feel that we may be misunderstanding each other here, is this clearing up at least my point of view?

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Aestryd 70 Prot Pally
Epimetheus 70 Feral Druid
Yuusei 70 Enhancement Shaman
Camsmule 70 Fury/Prot Warrior (yes, it's my bank...no sniggering)
Aegyn 70 Holy Priest
Shyff 70 Arcane Mage

"The real-life equivalent of WoW tanking is to pick a fight with a rabid pedophilic cannibal and try to keep his attention while a pack of first-graders stab him to death with a spork."

luna

That's exactly where I'm coming from, Aegyn. I have no problem whatsoever passing on loot for those who need it more. I do, on the other hand, take issue with someone brand new coming in and rolling on day one and taking loot from those who rightfully earned it, only to leave the guild a few days later. Just as the new folks are trying us on for size, we are trying to determine if they are a good fit as well. When loot gets involved, it gets messy and builds resentment. I know I've fallen victim to the whole thought that someone is only there for the loot when they are rolling against veteran players in their first, ground breaking runs with us.

I am not totally against a fair attempt at DKP, but I think common sense and courtesy SHOULD prevail here. However, we have already seen that simply saying "please be considerate if this is your first time here to other players" just doesn't stop someone from rolling when they see the purples on their screen.

__________________
Resurgent's New Motivational Motto:
"Now train harder! Live inside your character! If it dies, YOU DIE! Focus!"

Jesus had a soulstone.

beep

We have in the past considered a number of variants on this (including DKP). We used to have rules that only mains could roll. Then we had a variation that only full guild members could roll (no recruits).

The "loot on the 4th raid" aka "three raid rule" is simple and will hopefully reduce concerns about folks who are new to the guild being loot ninjas.

To reiterate a response to Del's issue...this is in no way intended to exclude infrequent raiders.

FWIW, I assume that we still would invoke the override rule that says "use before DE"...meaning that even a first time raider (normally excluded from loot) would be able to get loot that no one else wants.

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AOC Characters in Ars Tactika (Cimmeria Server)
Aston (Lvl 72 Tempest of Set)
+various alts (Helot, Bheep, Tikra, Chiros, Elkine)

TG WoW Characters
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Tootr (Resto Shaman)


Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

Gaze

DO IT. 3 raids is what? A week and a half. I dont think thats to long to ask a nub to wait. Actually seems rather short to me. Personally I wouldn't see a problem with 4-6 raids.

I dont really care though. Im more concerned about our progession. Lets keep it rolling.

BTW- I have so much DKP. All the loots would be MINE!!!

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"Do me a favor and slap my Water Elemental around for me!!!! So Icy!!!"

Ricca

I think this is a great idea as well....

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Candrice 62 Warrior
Ricca 70 Rogue
Machelle 68 Mage
Enya 70 Druid

Alassari

Although I am new to the guild and resurgent raiding, I'll throw in my 2 cents =).

On my first night of raiding, I won a T5 gloves, but before rolling on the loot and receiving, I was asked if I would be willing to pass the loot to more deserving raid members. My response was nothing short of respect for the other raid members, I had no problem passing the loot unto more deserving members of the raid group. I am almost certain that the "3 raid rule" was revived because of my receiving the T5 gloves and I hope that no one looks down upon me for taking the gloves.

I completely agree with the "3 - X raid rule," in fact I agree with it. I really enjoy Tactical Gamer, I've meant some great players and great people and have no intentions of leaving the guild. I am here to meet great people and to progress and if getting loot requires several weeks to prove my worth than so be it.

Again, I hope I have no caused any bad blood amongst fellow guild memebers.

Aegyn

Beep, I would definitely assume that the override of use before DE would happen. Alassari, I wouldn't take too much of this onto your shoulders...I have a feeling that this has been a growing concern for some of the members since before you got your gloves, it was perhaps a catalyst for dealing with the issue however. In that light, and also for your own feedback: thank-you! I would also hesitate to say that this is bringing up any bad blood, it's just an issue that people have differing views on, and we're discussing it.

Cheers,

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Aestryd 70 Prot Pally
Epimetheus 70 Feral Druid
Yuusei 70 Enhancement Shaman
Camsmule 70 Fury/Prot Warrior (yes, it's my bank...no sniggering)
Aegyn 70 Holy Priest
Shyff 70 Arcane Mage

"The real-life equivalent of WoW tanking is to pick a fight with a rabid pedophilic cannibal and try to keep his attention while a pack of first-graders stab him to death with a spork."

Gaviin

Alassari, at this point I have no problem at all with your having won those gloves. There's no bad blood or anything like that on my end, and I'm sure it's the same for most of us. That being said, please don't stretch the truth (to put it lightly). It does not reflect well.

On the topic of the 3-raid rule, I'm in support. Like Gaze, I feel that it wouldn't be unreasonable to raise it to 5 or 6. We'll see how this works out and go from there.

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70 Ninja

Gaviin

Alassari and I discussed this offline and straightened everything out. Nothing to worry about.

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70 Ninja