Wintrow

In a nutshell, Resurgent needs you to work out an effective means of kiting an undead mob during the trash waves in order to engage all NPCs.

We certainly have survived the trash waves at the Alliance camp without engaging all NPCs, but I believe that continuing to not do this at the Horde camp will end up hurting us a lot more. We stopped trying this approach because hunters kept dying. I'm certainly not an expert on the hunter class, but I'd imagine that there has to be a better way of doing this kiting. All strats that I've read rely on one or two hunters kiting a single undead mob to engage all NPCs and then drag that mob back to the AOE so there must be a reliable method of doing so.

Can you use your frost traps? Can you use shots to slow the mob's movement so they don't catch you? Can you use Aspect of the Cheetah? Anything else?

I want all hunters to do their own research and discuss amongst themselves how they can do this kiting better. I also want to use our Alliance camp trash waves as a practice ground for you to test out your methods. Once we get to the Horde camp trash, you will need to be well-versed at this so that you can seamlessly switch into the kiting role on the waves on which it is called. Kiting may not be needed on all waves, but on others it will be the difference between a smooth clear and the raid falling behind on DPS and being overrun.

Thanks guys.

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70 Priest

orion808

Hunters, use strafing movement instead of stopping and turning around to shoot. Also, you need to maintain aggro while the NPCs beat on the mob, or it's not going anywhere.

Pick a mob in the back of the incoming mobs, Arcane Shot, Distracting Shot, Concussive, Multi Shot...run like hell...strafe and Arcane Shot again...

You must learn to kite effectively. Just like mages have to sheep effectively...this is your job. Learn it and do it well.
All hunters are expected to know how to do this.

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shirokuma

hahah sheepin effectively! that is funny :P

Jest

When I was kiting mobs last week the main issue seemed to be holding aggro on them. Many times when I'd kite one through an npc group the npc's would draw aggro and I'd have to fight to get it back. I was rusty at first and died twice but it became easier after the first few kites. The main reason we stopped the kiting strat was that it basically seemed unnecessary since we weren't losing tanks on the trash waves.

My method was to lay frost trap, select mob, hit it with arcane shot and serpent sting and concussive shot, rinse and repeat while I ran it around the camp. Each mob was always dead by the time I got them close to where Jaina was though because of all the npc's banging on it. I found that I tended to lose aggro more with aspect of the cheetah on and held aggro better when using aspect of the hawk instead although it was dicier with being able to keep enough distance from the mob.

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Jest 70 Dwarf Marks. Hunter
Okto 70 Draenei Enhanc. Shammy
Zaz 70 Night Elf Prot. Warrior
Voran 68 Dwarf Shadow Priest

Muirc

Was waiting till Wednesday to chime in on this but...

You can't kite the mob too close to the NPCs near the door it will aggro them and you won't be able to pull them off. My suggestion for this kite is a little different. I wanted to see if we could park the pets near the NPCs we need to kite and MD to the pet. Once the mob gets to the pet, let the pet growl and attack so it keeps aggro, heal the pet and put the pet on passive to run back to where you will be standing next to the AOE group.

Any thoughts on this? I haven't seen it but thought it would be the most effective without putting the hunter at risk of dying.

Of course, if this doesn't work, I'll be brushing up on my jumpshot.

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"Remember that all things are only opinions and that it is in your power to think as you please."

Jest

The problem I see with this strat though, Muirc, is in the alliance camp there are so many groups of npc's relatively close to other npc groups that I would be surprised if the pet was able to hold aggro with just 3 md shots...most likely the mob would aggro onto the first or second group of npc's it ran by and you would still be stuck trying to get back aggro. Another idea I had was, if we mainly want to get some but not necessarily all of the npc's involved, is to kite the mob through one or no more than 2 npc groups at a time then back to the aoe area. If we lose a group of npc's at some point then we kite to the next npc group on the next wave.

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Jest 70 Dwarf Marks. Hunter
Okto 70 Draenei Enhanc. Shammy
Zaz 70 Night Elf Prot. Warrior
Voran 68 Dwarf Shadow Priest

orion808

Serpent sting is a bad idea on threat generation, which is what you need in this kiting endeavor. Quick numbers (based on Crebis):

Threat (as per Omen)
(non-crits)
~500 Auto Shot
~700 Arcane Shot
900 Distracting Shot (exact threat)
??? Multi-Shot
??? Aimed Shot

Shots are placed in order of lowest-highest threat. If possible, open with Aimed Shot. Multi-shouldn't be used because you don't want more than one...use it later. Arcane and Distracting should be used every time they are up and Auto will find it's own way in if you slow down a a little. Keep Cheetah on and drop a trap now and then. Shouldn't have an issue with threat generation if you use the proper shots.





Didn't test Multi

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Jest

Probably not able to get the Aimed Shot off in time. Will go with this cast order:
Aspect of the Cheetah and Frost Trap before mobs appear. Then...
Hunters Mark if can aquire the target before it's in shooting range
Distracting Shot
Arcane Shot
Concussive Shot
then once mob is separated enough from the rest of the pack will use Multi-Shot

Your right about Serpent Sting. It's a time waster on a kite.

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Jest 70 Dwarf Marks. Hunter
Okto 70 Draenei Enhanc. Shammy
Zaz 70 Night Elf Prot. Warrior
Voran 68 Dwarf Shadow Priest

Tarenth

Distracting Shot actually does 700 threat which drops to 490 with Blessing of Salvation.

Arcane, Auto, Multi, and Aimed will do threat at 1:1 before BoSalv and 1:0.7 with BoSalv.
Immolation Trap and Serpent Sting will also do threat at 1:1/1:0.7 except over time.

Lastly Growl is scaled by Pet AP and generally speaking will do more threat for MM spec than BM spec.They also do threat at 1:1/1:0.7 when attacking which doesn't mean much if you're running away using it to kite.

The problem is, just like what Muric mentioned, once the NPCs are on the mob they do DRAMATICALLY more threat/damage than the hunter. You also have to contend with the 110%/130% aggro threshold to regain control of the mob.

The highest aggro generation sequence for me is:
Aimed shot/Arcane Shot (you can fire both off at the same time if you do it right)
Concussion
Multishot
Serpent Sting
Immolation Trap
Distracting Shot

Broken down that's:
1800/950
Nil
1000
900 over 15
1200 over 15
700

Without crits and without BoSalv and yet I still lose the mob on occasion to grunt class NPCs, never mind the knight class who do more damage.

There IS a solution though. NPCs will not attack mobs that are CCed so if you have scattershot/ice trap you could break the NPCs off their target and get them back under control. However you do have to time the CC properly so that it affects the mob before the swing timers of the NPCs come around and they break it mid CC.

I'll think of playing around with it more, but in practice we clear groups faster just by gathering everything up and AoEing them down in the Alliance base. Also priests and warriors/druids have an easier time doing the kite because the priests can chain shackle the mob to get distance and peel NPCs off to join the AoE group and warriors/druids can just taunt the mobs where they want it to go. Of course, they also have more important jobs elsewhere, but they have the best tools for the kite technically.

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My sanity is not in question...
It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.

Gaiaghost07

All I have to say is this, go back to Molten Core, and get your friggen "Hunter-Leaf" if you never did it. That will teach you to kite Helped me

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70 Feral Druid: Gaiaghost
70 Fire Mage: Nalfein
70 Frost Mage: Redazan
70 Arms/Fury Warrior: Drantor
70 Beast M. Hunter: Brualst
70 Holy Paladin: Valgar
63 Master M.Hunter: Drizztnguen
60 Combat Rogue: Slyone
...and many more

Muirc

Not the kiting that's a problem for me nub. It's the aggro.

And I have my Bow.

**Stupid WS Demon!!!**

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"Remember that all things are only opinions and that it is in your power to think as you please."

Gaiaghost07

Then l2tameaferaldruid! Aggro ftw...

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70 Feral Druid: Gaiaghost
70 Fire Mage: Nalfein
70 Frost Mage: Redazan
70 Arms/Fury Warrior: Drantor
70 Beast M. Hunter: Brualst
70 Holy Paladin: Valgar
63 Master M.Hunter: Drizztnguen
60 Combat Rogue: Slyone
...and many more

Jest

Kiting seemed to go much better in the 4-16-08 raid. My strat was to do the following...get as close as possible to gates without getting in front of the tank...I'd be in aspect of the cheetah; I'd hit the ghoul with hunters mark, then Distract, then arcane shot, then concussion and then start running my path, while droping a frost trap. I'd kite while strafing and hit with arcane and concussion as much as possible. I'd hit frost trap and concussion as soon as one was off cooldown. If I was unable to get a hunters mark in time before the pull then I'd hit it while running as soon as possible. If I had enough distance i'd stop for a sec to hit a multishot on it.

I found that putting frost trap down before the pull often didn't work because I may have to change direction if the mob didn't pull as soon as I hit it.

Often I was fighting with the pally tanks for aggro because the angle from my side, which was north, didn't allow much room for error to avoid the consecration aura of the pally tank. I had one death in the alliance camp on my first kite but no others after that.

The kiting for Azrogal was much easier. There was a lot more room to get the ghouls before they ran through consecration and the distance to Thrall was not too far and was easily navigable. I was able to get Thrall into the fight on most of those kites and had no deaths. the kite method was the same: Aspect of the cheetah, hunters mark if had time; got as close as possible without being in front of the tank. Pulled the ghoul off to the left side of the road I was facing with distract, arcane and concussion. then layed frost trap while running away and would strafe to reapply arcane and concussion. Would reapply frost trap around thrall's area and continue kiting in a semicircle back to the aoe area while reapplying concussion as soon as it was off cooldown.

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Jest 70 Dwarf Marks. Hunter
Okto 70 Draenei Enhanc. Shammy
Zaz 70 Night Elf Prot. Warrior
Voran 68 Dwarf Shadow Priest

orion808

Forgetting the CD...don't forget to use Distract when it's up. I noticed that you were almost able to pull your mob back to the group 100% of the time, except when the NPCs aggro'd near the end of your kite.

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Wintrow

Thanks for all of the discussion and thought everyone put into this thread. It seems that our hunters figured out a very good rhythm to their kiting this week, putting the raid in a much better position to succeed on all of the trash waves.

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70 Priest