Pistos

We briefly talked about this last night but I think it warrents further discussion. We seem to have been hitting the debuff limit quite often and DoTs and other debuffs were being knocked off. I know that SPs and Affliction locks take up a ton of slots each but I have no real knowledge of what debuffs other classes have/need. I did a little snooping through the WWS reports and through some posts on elitistjerks.com and am a little more informed. However, I didn't find a definitive list of what we should and shouldn't use. I know that group makeup is going to alter this so each night it could be more or less of an issue depending on who's there.

SPs use 2 for Misery and SW. 4 more for each SP (VT, VE, SW:P, MF). So last night with 3 SPs we were taking up 14 slots for the 3 of us. We ran most of the runs without a lock (BOO - need more locks please!) but for those that Gnopaine was in he would be using up 5 more (Corruption, Immolate, CoE, SL, UA). So far that brings the total up to 19 without factoring in Sunders, Thunderclap, Rend, Demo Shout, Deadly Poisons, Faerie Fire, Scorpid Sting, Serpent Sting, Fireball DoTs, Fire Vulnerability, Ignite, Insect Swarm, Moonfire, Pyroblast, Winter's Chill, Flame Shock, Garrote, Rupture.

From the bit of research I did today it appears that there either is no priority for debuffs anymore or the prioritization isn't working. Apparently at Level 60 certain debuffs had priority (Curses, Sunders) that wouldn't get knocked off but that doesn't seem to be the case at 70.

We should probably try and communicate on this one and figure out what debuffs are necessary and what aren't so we can avoid any problems with this in the future.

Thoughts?

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70 Shadow Priest (and other assorted distractions)

beep

Even the lowly tanks are using Sunder Armor, Battle Shout, Commanding Shout, Demoralizing Shout, Thunderclap and a rare Rend. OK...so we won't do Rend any more!

I think Pistos is on to a good idea...that we should at least consider the debuffs with a very rough priority of desirability.

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Pistos

Battle and Commanding Shouts don't take up a debuff slot.

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70 Shadow Priest (and other assorted distractions)

Tarenth

Aren't there 40 debuff slots on a mob before things get pushed off? Its really hard to tell if there is priorities or not anymore because you can only see 18 debuffs with the stock UI. After that things start to get pushed off the side and, while still active, you can no longer see them. This was changed even more because your debuffs will always appear first on the list so you can see the graphical count down of duration.

Its pretty much given that 2 slots will be taken already (Hunter's Mark and Sunder Armor).

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Gnopaine

My recollection matches Tarenth's. There are now 40 debuff slots, and I don't think we are close to using them all up. There is still a priority scheme for curses, which will never be knocked off.

(BTW, typically I will only use 4 debuff slots. Siphon Life is not DPS/mana-efficient at all, so I only use that one when in need of a little extra healing and when max DPS is not absolutely necessary. On Gruul I use it at the beginning of the fight because it's an instant that I can cast while running, but after that I typically won't.)

EDIT: OK, make it 5. When I crit a Shadowbolt, there will also be the Shadow Vulnerability debuff. At least it's not 6...

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Scarpia (aka Edbane) - Level 70 Paladin (Holy)
Ripoffron - Level 1 Auction House Hustler

Pistos

I'm pretty sure we were bumping up against it last night. Unless Gruul has an ability that drops debuffs because I was losing SW:Ps and VTs midway through their timer. I guess its also possible that my DoT timer isn't working right, but I've never had an issue with it before.

Yes there are 40 debuff slots now so its not like back in the old days of 8 or 16. But I don't think its impossible for us to be hitting the cap based on the list of debuffs we were using (from the WWS).

I'll be out of town this week unfortunately, but keep an eye on it .

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70 Shadow Priest (and other assorted distractions)

Vinzalf

I took up two slots that I can remember, and 3 for a short duration after my vanish to drop threat.

Deadly Poison is up there for the dot affect even while we're flying through the air from his pre-shatter moves. Rupture should be up there as often as possible, as it's kinda a staple of sustained dps on a mob. After I vanish I always put up rupture for more dottyness. I suppose if needed I could ambush, I wasn't too worried about it knocking other debuffs off, but If people say their debuffs were dropping, I can try to change to accomidate that. Anyways, I think all three of the rogues were similar in their debuff-slot usage. So we probably took up 6 slots.

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Xyris

idk if u factored it in or not pistos, shadoweave only takes up 1 slot for all 3 shad priests, mindflayx3, shainx3, miseryx1 (doesnt it only work on the 1 sp, target not as a debuff but more a marker for u a buff basically?) vamp touchx3, i dont think we rly need to do much vamp embrace on gruul as it does grab aggro quick and we have to stop dmg for whoever is tankin/offtankin to step it back up. i only use it if A) we take to much shatter and healers need to get a lil life back or B) tank has a 50k lead on aggro and my group is takin a bit to much dmg

Edit: dropped vamp touch (improved) for less mana cost of spells, lets see how it works.

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Sajier

Ok, so based on this I will make sure NOT to throw up SW:P when I have a moment .

Great Discussion guys.

Now, Lets get a list from everyone on what their DoTs are, that way we can prioritize the list and figure out what everyone should be doing. I think this will optimize us a lot if we can figure this out.

Thanks for looking at this guys!

Saj

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Gnopaine

I need to crunch some numbers on whether dropping UA and picking up Ruin and some Improved Immolate points would be a net gain. If so, I can drop one of my debuff slots. If it's a real problem I can always go back to 0/21/40 and stop DoTting altogether... >.< But I'd rather not...

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Scarpia (aka Edbane) - Level 70 Paladin (Holy)
Ripoffron - Level 1 Auction House Hustler

Gaviin

Yeah, I'll garrote initially (and, like Shalt, mid-way through the fight if I vanish), use Deadly Poison, and Rupture. So three debuffs is the most you'll see from me at any given time. And unless I'm mistaken, vanish does not add a debuff to the mob, Shalt; it just puts a "buff" on the rogue for 10 seconds (until they unstealth from doing another opening move, of course). So that won't be adding any debuff.

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Sajier

No, we love your DoTs Gnopaine, Its great how much aggro control you have with those, and it allows for damage to continue even during the punt/grasp/shatter.

Guys if we can, just give a list of the Debuffs that you put up, that way we can get a priority set up.

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Aeryck

Same here, deadly poison + rupture almost all the time. I will attempt to get a garrote after a vanish, but doesn't really factor into the debuff slots too much (only 1-2x per boss fight).

Morganan

Ua is more dps then ruin until you hit (If memory serves) 35% crit rate.

Xyris

OK shadow priests for sure:

Shadow Word: Pain, Vampiric Touch, Misery (idk if it counts its an automatic debuff on target (extra spell dmg against that target for the priest)), Shadow Weaving (this is only gonna be for 1 debuff with 5 stacks so only count this x1)

to control aggro i dont use the vamp embrace unless needed and im thinkin same with pistos, but heres a list set with 3x shad priests like previous raid

SW: Px3
Vampiric Touchx3
Miseryx3
Mind flayx3
shadow weavingx1

thats 13 from shadow priests alone (give or take), unless the misery and mind flay does not count as a debuff... that idk

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