Good news from AMD

**Bamboo** · 03-27-2008, 07:47 AM

AMD released their B3 stepping update for their quad CPUs, and there are tons of reviews out there.
Here are a couple of good ones:

AMD Phenom X4 9850 Processor Review - B3 Stepping

Higher Clock Speeds, No TLB Issues and Better Pricing: The New Phenom

Prices:
* $235 AMD Phenom X4 9850 “Black Edition” processor
* $215 AMD Phenom X4 9750 processor
* $195 AMD Phenom X4 9550 processor

Gaming benchmarks are here
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...px?i=3272&p=12

Here is the bottom line for the chips, and the future as well:
"Now this is more like the AMD we're used to seeing. It's not quite the performance dominating AMD of years past, but it's a competitive AMD. The Phenom X4 9850 Black Edition is, despite its lower performance in many cases, an actual competitor to Intel's Core 2 Quad Q6600 thanks to its price. The value is even more impressive if you happen to have a Socket-AM2 motherboard that can accept a 9850 as a drop in replacement.

AMD does continue to have some weaknesses, mainly when it comes to DivX and gaming performance and neither of these areas are going to get fixed while remaining on an unchanged architecture. That being said, AMD is standing in a much better space right now and is competitive enough that Intel had better be paying attention.

The Core 2 Quad Q6600 is becoming long in the tooth and could stand a quick transition to the Q9300, which Intel appears to have scheduled for next quarter. The $266 price point, while very aggressive, leaves a lot of room for AMD to come and play in the $175 - $250 space. Intel needs cheaper quad core offerings, especially once AMD starts shipping its triple core Phenom in retail.

If you're building a new system, Intel is still the way to go and once 45nm pricing/availability works out the value proposition will only improve. What's changed is that AMD is now a realistic alternative. Just four months ago there was no point in even considering Phenom, but today it is a viable alternative. If AMD could simplify its lineup a bit and squeeze some extra frequency headroom out of its chips, all while keeping its aggressive pricing we may just have a return to competition in the desktop CPU space.

Exciting times are ahead as well. AMD seems very confident in its 45nm transition, which should bring about higher performance and clock frequencies. Around the same time we'll be seeing the very first Nehalem CPUs from Intel, and before we know it it'll be 2009 and time to talk about Bulldozer. I've always said that AMD had a good roadmap, it just needs to be given the chance to execute on it; these new Phenom processors may able to buy AMD the time it needs to do just that."

sc1ence · 03-27-2008, 10:46 AM

great news. AMD is trying to build a plant here in upstate NY. I am hoping their company does well and the plant gets built.

**El_Gringo_Grande** · 03-27-2008, 01:02 PM

I like it best when AMD dominates for a couple years then Intel dominates for the next couple.

Looks like there is hope this will be the case.

**uk-warrior** · 03-27-2008, 02:50 PM

THAT IS NOT GOOD NEWS!

Now iv'e got to find more money for my craving *Wink*

**Long Bow** · 03-28-2008, 09:49 AM

I was looking at some benches for them yesterday and I'm impressed so far. They need to bump up there FSB from 800. That is whats holding them back I bet. The gaming benches I saw that used a variety of cpu's but with a 3870 512mb showed that once you reach 1680x1050 it didn't really matter what chip you had, you were GPU bound.

**Bamboo** · 03-28-2008, 11:54 AM

I haven't read up completly on the subject, but my understanding is that since AMD uses a built in memory controller, it means that a lower FSB doesn't matter as much. That controller is one of the things that has kept AMD up and in the past ahead of Intel. In fact, starting with Nehalem at the end of the year, Intel is also going with the built in memory controller.

And you are correct about the CPU not mattering to a point due to a GPU bottleneck, but that only applies to gamers, while many people depend on them to be as fast as possible for video editing and numbers crunching, etc.

Satertek · 03-28-2008, 02:27 PM

Waiting for quad cores to hit my $150 sweet spot. Good to see that it won't be too much longer.

**Sir-Nerd** · 03-28-2008, 05:22 PM

I'm a AMD fan and i'll wait till they drop (maybe this summer)

**Long Bow** · 03-31-2008, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bamboo

I haven't read up completly on the subject, but my understanding is that since AMD uses a built in memory controller, it means that a lower FSB doesn't matter as much. That controller is one of the things that has kept AMD up and in the past ahead of Intel. In fact, starting with Nehalem at the end of the year, Intel is also going with the built in memory controller.

And you are correct about the CPU not mattering to a point due to a GPU bottleneck, but that only applies to gamers, while many people depend on them to be as fast as possible for video editing and numbers crunching, etc.

You mean you can do more with your computer then game!?

I thought that the onboard memory controller was an advantage back in the amd64 vs. P4 days and why amd was ahead there. Now with the C2D chips I thought that the advantage of the onboard was not really that great? All I know is that every bench shows the amd chips fall behind even at the same clock speeds, I figured the cache and fsb made the difference in intels favour?

**Bamboo** · 03-31-2008, 11:10 AM

I think you are right, the new 1066 and very new 1333 FSB has really helped intel surpass AMD in the last year, but from what I read, the Nehalem has a lower FSB, but now has a memory controller.

ScratchMonkey · 04-01-2008, 02:25 AM

When a signal moves from one medium to another (like through a connector or chip pin) some noise results. This is caused by large and small impedance mismatches that cause reflections, similar to sharp bends in a water pipe.

Putting the memory controller on the same die as the CPU reduces the number of signals that need to go from chip (where signals are very fast) to circuit board (where they must slow down a lot due to larger geometries and different impedances).

The reason you put different functions in different chips is modularity: To allow one function to be upgraded in isolation while the other stays the same. Modularity can improve reliability (because the separate functions can be more easily tested separately) but it can also lead to loss of performance. It's a trade-off, and picking the right trade-off is an engineer's job.

You also see this trade-off in operating systems: Linux and similar OSs place high value on modularity, while MS introduces large amounts of coupling in the name of "integration". (Software engineers consider coupling to be Bad. Coupling means that changing something in one place can cause bugs to appear in a completely different and unexpected place.)

In my own work in automation (robotics), I design for low coupling and then reintroduce it as needed to meet performance requirements.

**kin3** · 04-01-2008, 02:46 PM

I read this over at ExtremeTech about cpu and gpu coming together on a single chip.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2279785,00.asp

**Bamboo** · 04-01-2008, 04:16 PM

Yeah, there is a lot of that chatter going on.
In fact, I read the other day the CEO or something of Intel said the end of the GPU is near, and with their CPUs like the 8 core, it will have enough extra horsepower to due the GPU calculations.
But there are arguements on both sides:
Intel believes Nvidia is panicking
Intel FUD presentation is out, CPU is better than GPU

**Bamboo** · 04-03-2008, 11:23 AM

Haha,
Here is even more from Intel just out

People "probably Won't" Need Discrete Graphics Cards Anymore - Intel

03-27-2008, 07:47 AM	#1 (permalink)
Bamboo Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: On the beach north of Jacksonville, NC Posts: 2,702	Good news from AMD AMD released their B3 stepping update for their quad CPUs, and there are tons of reviews out there. Here are a couple of good ones: AMD Phenom X4 9850 Processor Review - B3 Stepping Higher Clock Speeds, No TLB Issues and Better Pricing: The New Phenom Prices: * $235 AMD Phenom X4 9850 “Black Edition” processor * $215 AMD Phenom X4 9750 processor * $195 AMD Phenom X4 9550 processor Gaming benchmarks are here http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...px?i=3272&p=12 Here is the bottom line for the chips, and the future as well: "Now this is more like the AMD we're used to seeing. It's not quite the performance dominating AMD of years past, but it's a competitive AMD. The Phenom X4 9850 Black Edition is, despite its lower performance in many cases, an actual competitor to Intel's Core 2 Quad Q6600 thanks to its price. The value is even more impressive if you happen to have a Socket-AM2 motherboard that can accept a 9850 as a drop in replacement. AMD does continue to have some weaknesses, mainly when it comes to DivX and gaming performance and neither of these areas are going to get fixed while remaining on an unchanged architecture. That being said, AMD is standing in a much better space right now and is competitive enough that Intel had better be paying attention. The Core 2 Quad Q6600 is becoming long in the tooth and could stand a quick transition to the Q9300, which Intel appears to have scheduled for next quarter. The $266 price point, while very aggressive, leaves a lot of room for AMD to come and play in the $175 - $250 space. Intel needs cheaper quad core offerings, especially once AMD starts shipping its triple core Phenom in retail. If you're building a new system, Intel is still the way to go and once 45nm pricing/availability works out the value proposition will only improve. What's changed is that AMD is now a realistic alternative. Just four months ago there was no point in even considering Phenom, but today it is a viable alternative. If AMD could simplify its lineup a bit and squeeze some extra frequency headroom out of its chips, all while keeping its aggressive pricing we may just have a return to competition in the desktop CPU space. Exciting times are ahead as well. AMD seems very confident in its 45nm transition, which should bring about higher performance and clock frequencies. Around the same time we'll be seeing the very first Nehalem CPUs from Intel, and before we know it it'll be 2009 and time to talk about Bulldozer. I've always said that AMD had a good roadmap, it just needs to be given the chance to execute on it; these new Phenom processors may able to buy AMD the time it needs to do just that." __________________ LINKS 10th Tactical Guard Server Rules and SOP * Kicked? Banned? READ THIS FIRST!* Contact an Admin * Nominate your teammates for a ribbon Stoop and you'll be stepped on; stand tall and you'll be shot at. -Carlos A. Urbizo-

03-27-2008, 10:46 AM	#2 (permalink)
sc1ence Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Real life. Age: 36 Posts: 4,209	Re: Good news from AMD great news. AMD is trying to build a plant here in upstate NY. I am hoping their company does well and the plant gets built.

03-27-2008, 01:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
El_Gringo_Grande Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: OKIE HOMY Age: 39 Posts: 2,327	Re: Good news from AMD I like it best when AMD dominates for a couple years then Intel dominates for the next couple. Looks like there is hope this will be the case. __________________ Sen. John McCain (AZ) For President '08 --- I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host. - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette

03-27-2008, 02:50 PM	#4 (permalink)
uk-warrior Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Ipswich Uk Age: 42 Posts: 235	Re: Good news from AMD THAT IS NOT GOOD NEWS! Now iv'e got to find more money for my craving Wink

03-28-2008, 09:49 AM	#5 (permalink)
Long Bow Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 30 Posts: 1,165	Re: Good news from AMD I was looking at some benches for them yesterday and I'm impressed so far. They need to bump up there FSB from 800. That is whats holding them back I bet. The gaming benches I saw that used a variety of cpu's but with a 3870 512mb showed that once you reach 1680x1050 it didn't really matter what chip you had, you were GPU bound. __________________

03-28-2008, 11:54 AM	#6 (permalink)
Bamboo Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: On the beach north of Jacksonville, NC Posts: 2,702	Re: Good news from AMD I haven't read up completly on the subject, but my understanding is that since AMD uses a built in memory controller, it means that a lower FSB doesn't matter as much. That controller is one of the things that has kept AMD up and in the past ahead of Intel. In fact, starting with Nehalem at the end of the year, Intel is also going with the built in memory controller. And you are correct about the CPU not mattering to a point due to a GPU bottleneck, but that only applies to gamers, while many people depend on them to be as fast as possible for video editing and numbers crunching, etc. __________________ LINKS 10th Tactical Guard Server Rules and SOP * Kicked? Banned? READ THIS FIRST!* Contact an Admin * Nominate your teammates for a ribbon Stoop and you'll be stepped on; stand tall and you'll be shot at. -Carlos A. Urbizo-

03-28-2008, 02:27 PM	#7 (permalink)
Satertek Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Auburn, Alabama, USA Age: 21 Posts: 258	Re: Good news from AMD Waiting for quad cores to hit my $150 sweet spot. Good to see that it won't be too much longer. __________________

03-28-2008, 05:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
Sir-Nerd Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: In the middle of North Ohio Posts: 942	Re: Good news from AMD I'm a AMD fan and i'll wait till they drop (maybe this summer) __________________ Men are basically smart or dumb and lazy or ambitious. The dumb and ambitious ones are dangerous and I get rid of them. The dumb and lazy ones I give mundane duties. The smart ambitious ones I put on my staff. The smart and lazy ones I make my commanders. When you can't run anymore, you crawl and when you can't do that, you find someone to carry you.

03-31-2008, 11:10 AM	#10 (permalink)
Bamboo Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: On the beach north of Jacksonville, NC Posts: 2,702	Re: Good news from AMD I think you are right, the new 1066 and very new 1333 FSB has really helped intel surpass AMD in the last year, but from what I read, the Nehalem has a lower FSB, but now has a memory controller. __________________ LINKS 10th Tactical Guard Server Rules and SOP * Kicked? Banned? READ THIS FIRST!* Contact an Admin * Nominate your teammates for a ribbon Stoop and you'll be stepped on; stand tall and you'll be shot at. -Carlos A. Urbizo-

04-01-2008, 02:25 AM	#11 (permalink)
ScratchMonkey Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Pablo, California Posts: 3,915	Re: Good news from AMD When a signal moves from one medium to another (like through a connector or chip pin) some noise results. This is caused by large and small impedance mismatches that cause reflections, similar to sharp bends in a water pipe. Putting the memory controller on the same die as the CPU reduces the number of signals that need to go from chip (where signals are very fast) to circuit board (where they must slow down a lot due to larger geometries and different impedances). The reason you put different functions in different chips is modularity: To allow one function to be upgraded in isolation while the other stays the same. Modularity can improve reliability (because the separate functions can be more easily tested separately) but it can also lead to loss of performance. It's a trade-off, and picking the right trade-off is an engineer's job. You also see this trade-off in operating systems: Linux and similar OSs place high value on modularity, while MS introduces large amounts of coupling in the name of "integration". (Software engineers consider coupling to be Bad. Coupling means that changing something in one place can cause bugs to appear in a completely different and unexpected place.) In my own work in automation (robotics), I design for low coupling and then reintroduce it as needed to meet performance requirements. __________________ Sig

04-01-2008, 02:46 PM	#12 (permalink)
kin3 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mobile, Al Age: 62 Posts: 1,141	Re: Good news from AMD I read this over at ExtremeTech about cpu and gpu coming together on a single chip. http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2279785,00.asp __________________ The Old Guy kin3

04-01-2008, 04:16 PM	#13 (permalink)
Bamboo Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: On the beach north of Jacksonville, NC Posts: 2,702	Re: Good news from AMD Yeah, there is a lot of that chatter going on. In fact, I read the other day the CEO or something of Intel said the end of the GPU is near, and with their CPUs like the 8 core, it will have enough extra horsepower to due the GPU calculations. But there are arguements on both sides: Intel believes Nvidia is panicking Intel FUD presentation is out, CPU is better than GPU __________________ LINKS 10th Tactical Guard Server Rules and SOP * Kicked? Banned? READ THIS FIRST!* Contact an Admin * Nominate your teammates for a ribbon Stoop and you'll be stepped on; stand tall and you'll be shot at. -Carlos A. Urbizo-

04-03-2008, 11:23 AM	#14 (permalink)
Bamboo Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: On the beach north of Jacksonville, NC Posts: 2,702	Re: Good news from AMD Haha, Here is even more from Intel just out People "probably Won't" Need Discrete Graphics Cards Anymore - Intel __________________ LINKS 10th Tactical Guard Server Rules and SOP * Kicked? Banned? READ THIS FIRST!* Contact an Admin * Nominate your teammates for a ribbon Stoop and you'll be stepped on; stand tall and you'll be shot at. -Carlos A. Urbizo-

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