Switch's New 'Puter: - Page 2

**P8riot** · 07-21-2008, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Long Bow

The Nehalm processors are coming out this winter. They will of course need a new mobo. You won't be able to benefit from them if that is what your thinking? (at least I don't think you will?)

The list you have there is a nice build. There is some great DFI forums if you do get one of their mobo's. Lots of info on OC'ing to be had.

Yeah, Nehalem is due out in October as the Bloomfield and will be a different socket and chipset (X58) altogether. Also set up for DDR3 RAM.

Seems like I've been running on my early dual core processor for YEARS (actually just over a year, before I used to rebuild every 3 to 6 months) and just have no complaints at all nor any difficulty running any titles.

**Bamboo** · 07-21-2008, 12:57 PM

Have been keeping up with this tread, but wanted to see what other had to say. Very good suggestions, especially from LongBow.

Just some thoughts:

Motherboard
That DFI is an amazing board, as most of their's are, but they are usually aimed at tweakers that need every option under the sun to eek out an extra .0000000001 overclock. Just too much for most people to figure out/ deal with. The nice thing about GIG and ASUS boards is they give you pretty much all the options you need, and it is easier to figure out. Was surprised you picked such an expensive board actually. I usually help people look at boards in the $100-$175 range. Will look around at some of the new stuff in a bit higher price. I have a feeling though a good P45 deluxe board for about $210 is going to give you everything you could want and more.

For instance:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131298
That is a very good board for DDR3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131297
good board for DDR2
Both are just quick examples.
And if you are certain at some point in the future you are going to want dual GPUs
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131317
An x48 board.
I personally would rather just get something like the new 4870X2, which is pretty much the same as crossfire, but with both GPUs on one board, so you don't have to deal with crossfire slots at all.

You are serious about building a computer for the long haul, so I think a quad is the way to go. Just about any major game from here forwards is going to have multi-core support. And in 2-3 years pretty much every major program is going to. You could go dual now, but you will be wanting to upgrade to quad in a couple years, and by that time it will be like trying to find a AMD socket 939 CPU now. Limited options and expensive.

So the Q9450 is a really good option. You may be able to find it cheap by looking around at like ZipZoomFly and other places.

DDR2/DDR3 is still right at the tipping point where it is such a huge choice and so close to moving mainstream. It is NOT, however, a ripoff. Just like DDR2 was, it was very expensive when it came out, but DDR3 is actually dropping in $$ quicker than DDR2 did.

For you here is what it boils down to. In 3 years or so when you want to add more memory (if you do), do you want to stress and search everywhere for DDR2 that costs a lot because it is not mainsteam any more? Look at what you have to pay for DDR1 right now. You pay the same for 512mb of DDR1 as you do for 2 gigs of DDR2.

Desertfox that just built his uber rig a couple weeks ago with DDR3 is very happy. Yes, he did have to spend a lot more than for DDR2, but if you are building for the long haul, like he was, that may be an option. I went with DDR2 personally last OCT. because DDR3 prices were still in the $400 range for 2 gigs, and that was for the slowest speed.
You can get a 4 gig kit now for as low as $200, and lots to choose from in the $200-$300 range.
Examples:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145200
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820227297

So out of all of it, that may end up being your hardest choice.

For heatsinks I still like my Ultra120, but tons of new stuff has come out since my build. That Ninja is still a high end cooler though, so you could always go with that. I would say for now don't waste your time on water cooling. Here's why. The build you are looking at building will run pretty much any game you want to will all the eye candy on, and do it very well. You really don't even need to overclock if you don't want too, since that CPU is fast enough to probably put most game's bottleneck on your GFX card. I would say play it safe and cheaper and go air for now, and then a couple years from now when you find yourself wanting more power, and wanting to overclock, then go with water. Who knows, buy that time we may have the miniature phase change coolers and other amazing stuff that we will be laughing at using water cooling.

But just as an idea to throw out there, you really don't need to go this hard core.
I would consider a build that used that CPU, a MB that is around $160, some DDR2-800 really good RAM, and the 4870 card. That is going to give you about 98% or more of the power of the more expensive system and will last you pretty much just as long. Plus, a couple years down the road you will be more able to have money to upgrade than you are now, and you won't be forcing yourself to go 5 years IF YOU DON"T WANT TO.

Plus, it will look more sensible to your friends/girlfriend and others. I assure you the cheaper system you would not be able to tell the difference in gaming, but you will be able to tell the difference in your wallet when you can spend money on other things like a hot date, or ordering pizza for that all night gaming marathon. Hell, with the money I am talking about saving you could get a 24" LCD or something that would actually make gaming more enjoyable. Think about it and post back.

God my fingers are tired.

Acreo Aeneas · 07-21-2008, 01:00 PM

DFI

Their higher end boards are nice and there is a good community following, but support is only through email (at least it was 3-4 years ago). Support may also take a while to respond.

**Bamboo** · 07-21-2008, 01:04 PM

I would love to tell him to wait for Bloomfield, but I am reading reports that mainstream stuff won't be out till like March, and considering how hard it was to get the 45nm stuff, like the e8400, when it first came out, I am guessing May or June before things settle down and prices are reasonable.
But that would be asking Switch to go without gaming for that long, or spending wasted money on AGP.
Still, buying a used AGP off E-bay is an option of you did want to wait.

Acreo Aeneas · 07-21-2008, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bamboo

I would love to tell him to wait for Bloomfield, but I am reading reports that mainstream stuff won't be out till like March, and considering how hard it was to get the 45nm stuff, like the e8400, when it first came out, I am guessing May or June before things settle down and prices are reasonable.
But that would be asking Switch to go without gaming for that long, or spending wasted money on AGP.
Still, buying a used AGP off E-bay is an option of you did want to wait.

Well I'm using all the various "plans" I had planned here since Switch and I were in the same boat 2 weeks ago.

I had it figured that if I was going all out on my next build: then I was going to get the Bloomfield quad-cores.

They have built-in memory controller so that's another chip on the motherboard I don't have to worry about failing (or going wacko).

The processor would hold another for at least another 4 years and well into 2012/2013.

**Namebot** · 07-21-2008, 07:04 PM

Just buy an absurd amount of DD2 ram right now if you are worried about it being expensive in the future. That is what I did. I have only utilized used 2+ gigs on on a few occasions and could have avoided it if I wanted to. But when the time comes that i want to play that game that requires 2+ gigs I am already set and it only cost me $30.

The only way that I can imagine it making any sense is if you expect to upgrade to Nehalem before the price of DDR3 ram has dropped an amount => the price of an equivalent amount of DDR2 ram. OR less than ~$30 for 2gigs. Which would have to be pretty soon after Nehalem is released at the rate its price is dropping.

Switch · 07-21-2008, 07:11 PM

It appears that Sapphire has finally gotten back to me about an RMA...

I have to ship the product myself and then pay them 15 dollars for the privledge of processing an RMA on their defective product.

I have the distinct feeling that after I send it to them I will either get back the same card still in non-working order, or they will cross ship someone elses defective unit.

At which point they will make me pay to send it to them again..... mother #$%^@s.

**Bamboo** · 07-21-2008, 07:16 PM

That is why you always put a tiny mark on anything you send back. That way you will know.

And the buying 8 gigs now might be a good idea.

**P8riot** · 07-21-2008, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switch

It appears that Sapphire has finally gotten back to me about an RMA...

I have to ship the product myself and then pay them 15 dollars for the privledge of processing an RMA on their defective product.

I have the distinct feeling that after I send it to them I will either get back the same card still in non-working order, or they will cross ship someone elses defective unit.

At which point they will make me pay to send it to them again..... mother #$%^@s.

Ahhh.. interesting.. good ol' Sapphire. ridiculous customer service. I went through two on two different occasions. After the second I got my money back from NewEgg and bought an ATI (branded) card.

Switch · 07-22-2008, 01:16 AM

After further consideration on the meaning of Q4 Nehalem, I'm doubting the wisdom of spending so much on a top end mobo if I don't benefit from it in the future.

The original idea was to have a mobo that would server as a viable platform for the next few years of potential upgrades --- but it seems a new, dominant socket is headed this way in 6 months, totally ruining that expectation.

Also, the Q9450 is rather expensive compared to the Q6600 or the E8500.
Would I be better going for a ~$150 mobo and a ~$200 E8500 instead? Damn you ever changing technology.

**Namebot** · 07-22-2008, 01:47 AM

Yep. I wouldn't sink a bunch of money into a motherboard when a socket change is right around the corner.

Of course I would never buy an expensive motherboard.

Just buy what you need. Trying to count on future tech to play out the way you want it to is a good way to be disappointed.

**Bamboo** · 07-22-2008, 09:12 AM

Like I posted, I think going with a really good mid-range board and CPU would be best.
And I personally would choose the e8400 over the 8500 considering they are just so close in speed, and 10 sec. in the BIOS would give you 3x that speed bump.

Though I'm still thinking quad core so you will be happier with the games you will be buying over the next 2-3 years.

Switch · 07-26-2008, 12:17 AM

The Q9450 has been purchased!

A friend and I are building twin systems and he happened to spot retail box Q9450s for $280 at a local store, so he grabbed 2. That means this build is happening, Sapphires RMA be damned!

Ok, back to mobo issue.
Stepping down to a less expensive selection, I'm having difficulty seeing the different between all the Asus P5Q offerings. The price range on them goes from 120 to 260 and I cant really see much difference. Could someone explain why one particular model might be better? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...0&Order=PRICED

Once a mother board is selected the build will proceed rather quickly.

**Bamboo** · 07-26-2008, 12:26 AM

Here is a better way of looking at them

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131295

It is confusing, and each one has a little of this and less of something else mabey, like SATA connections, USB ports, E-SATA, PCI vs PCI-E X1 slots, etc.

Personally, my decision was made easier because I wanted one that had the built in Wi-Fi access point (which my wife is using right now on her laptop in the living room). You need to do the same thing. Make a list of the thing(s) you really want, and look down the list. Usually also the more expensive you go, the more tweaking options you are going to have in the BIOS. The Maximus you were considering for instance is probably going to have way more than the $129 one, because it is the hard core gamer/overclocker board.

**P8riot** · 07-26-2008, 02:17 AM

Agree with Bamboo. All of the 30 or 40 PC's I build have ASUS boards.. for better or for worse.

I've bought different boards in the same series without paying much attention and OOPS.. I was short a USB header, or no fan connection in a good spot. I use a hardware RAID card on my performance machines so running out of SATA connections isn't usually an issue.

Overall I like the higher end boards because I can mess around with stuff without adding on USB cards or WiFi cards..

07-21-2008, 12:57 PM	#17 (permalink)
Bamboo Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: On the beach north of Jacksonville, NC Posts: 3,400	Re: Switch's New 'Puter: Have been keeping up with this tread, but wanted to see what other had to say. Very good suggestions, especially from LongBow. Just some thoughts: Motherboard That DFI is an amazing board, as most of their's are, but they are usually aimed at tweakers that need every option under the sun to eek out an extra .0000000001 overclock. Just too much for most people to figure out/ deal with. The nice thing about GIG and ASUS boards is they give you pretty much all the options you need, and it is easier to figure out. Was surprised you picked such an expensive board actually. I usually help people look at boards in the $100-$175 range. Will look around at some of the new stuff in a bit higher price. I have a feeling though a good P45 deluxe board for about $210 is going to give you everything you could want and more. For instance: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131298 That is a very good board for DDR3 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131297 good board for DDR2 Both are just quick examples. And if you are certain at some point in the future you are going to want dual GPUs http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131317 An x48 board. I personally would rather just get something like the new 4870X2, which is pretty much the same as crossfire, but with both GPUs on one board, so you don't have to deal with crossfire slots at all. You are serious about building a computer for the long haul, so I think a quad is the way to go. Just about any major game from here forwards is going to have multi-core support. And in 2-3 years pretty much every major program is going to. You could go dual now, but you will be wanting to upgrade to quad in a couple years, and by that time it will be like trying to find a AMD socket 939 CPU now. Limited options and expensive. So the Q9450 is a really good option. You may be able to find it cheap by looking around at like ZipZoomFly and other places. DDR2/DDR3 is still right at the tipping point where it is such a huge choice and so close to moving mainstream. It is NOT, however, a ripoff. Just like DDR2 was, it was very expensive when it came out, but DDR3 is actually dropping in $$ quicker than DDR2 did. For you here is what it boils down to. In 3 years or so when you want to add more memory (if you do), do you want to stress and search everywhere for DDR2 that costs a lot because it is not mainsteam any more? Look at what you have to pay for DDR1 right now. You pay the same for 512mb of DDR1 as you do for 2 gigs of DDR2. Desertfox that just built his uber rig a couple weeks ago with DDR3 is very happy. Yes, he did have to spend a lot more than for DDR2, but if you are building for the long haul, like he was, that may be an option. I went with DDR2 personally last OCT. because DDR3 prices were still in the $400 range for 2 gigs, and that was for the slowest speed. You can get a 4 gig kit now for as low as $200, and lots to choose from in the $200-$300 range. Examples: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145200 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820227297 So out of all of it, that may end up being your hardest choice. For heatsinks I still like my Ultra120, but tons of new stuff has come out since my build. That Ninja is still a high end cooler though, so you could always go with that. I would say for now don't waste your time on water cooling. Here's why. The build you are looking at building will run pretty much any game you want to will all the eye candy on, and do it very well. You really don't even need to overclock if you don't want too, since that CPU is fast enough to probably put most game's bottleneck on your GFX card. I would say play it safe and cheaper and go air for now, and then a couple years from now when you find yourself wanting more power, and wanting to overclock, then go with water. Who knows, buy that time we may have the miniature phase change coolers and other amazing stuff that we will be laughing at using water cooling. But just as an idea to throw out there, you really don't need to go this hard core. I would consider a build that used that CPU, a MB that is around $160, some DDR2-800 really good RAM, and the 4870 card. That is going to give you about 98% or more of the power of the more expensive system and will last you pretty much just as long. Plus, a couple years down the road you will be more able to have money to upgrade than you are now, and you won't be forcing yourself to go 5 years IF YOU DON"T WANT TO. Plus, it will look more sensible to your friends/girlfriend and others. I assure you the cheaper system you would not be able to tell the difference in gaming, but you will be able to tell the difference in your wallet when you can spend money on other things like a hot date, or ordering pizza for that all night gaming marathon. Hell, with the money I am talking about saving you could get a 24" LCD or something that would actually make gaming more enjoyable. Think about it and post back. God my fingers are tired. __________________ LINKS 10th Tactical Guard Server Rules and SOP * Kicked? Banned? READ THIS FIRST!* Contact an Admin * Nominate your teammates for a ribbon Stoop and you'll be stepped on; stand tall and you'll be shot at. -Carlos A. Urbizo-

07-21-2008, 01:00 PM	#18 (permalink)
Acreo Aeneas Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: DePaul University (Chicago) Age: 22 Posts: 4,673	Re: Switch's New 'Puter: DFI Their higher end boards are nice and there is a good community following, but support is only through email (at least it was 3-4 years ago). Support may also take a while to respond. __________________ Current Obsessions: Netbooks and other low-cost, small, and portable PCs. RSS Feeds: Bamboo

07-21-2008, 01:04 PM	#19 (permalink)
Bamboo Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: On the beach north of Jacksonville, NC Posts: 3,400	Re: Switch's New 'Puter: I would love to tell him to wait for Bloomfield, but I am reading reports that mainstream stuff won't be out till like March, and considering how hard it was to get the 45nm stuff, like the e8400, when it first came out, I am guessing May or June before things settle down and prices are reasonable. But that would be asking Switch to go without gaming for that long, or spending wasted money on AGP. Still, buying a used AGP off E-bay is an option of you did want to wait. __________________ LINKS 10th Tactical Guard Server Rules and SOP * Kicked? Banned? READ THIS FIRST!* Contact an Admin * Nominate your teammates for a ribbon Stoop and you'll be stepped on; stand tall and you'll be shot at. -Carlos A. Urbizo-

07-21-2008, 07:04 PM	#21 (permalink)
Namebot Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 450	Re: Switch's New 'Puter: Just buy an absurd amount of DD2 ram right now if you are worried about it being expensive in the future. That is what I did. I have only utilized used 2+ gigs on on a few occasions and could have avoided it if I wanted to. But when the time comes that i want to play that game that requires 2+ gigs I am already set and it only cost me $30. The only way that I can imagine it making any sense is if you expect to upgrade to Nehalem before the price of DDR3 ram has dropped an amount => the price of an equivalent amount of DDR2 ram. OR less than ~$30 for 2gigs. Which would have to be pretty soon after Nehalem is released at the rate its price is dropping. __________________ Last edited by Namebot; 07-21-2008 at 07:20 PM.

07-21-2008, 07:11 PM	#22 (permalink)
Switch Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 1,234	Re: Switch's New 'Puter: It appears that Sapphire has finally gotten back to me about an RMA... I have to ship the product myself and then pay them 15 dollars for the privledge of processing an RMA on their defective product. I have the distinct feeling that after I send it to them I will either get back the same card still in non-working order, or they will cross ship someone elses defective unit. At which point they will make me pay to send it to them again..... mother #$%^@s. __________________ \|TG\|Switch Better known as: That noob who crashed the chopper. That noob who ran over the mine. That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle. That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

07-21-2008, 07:16 PM	#23 (permalink)
Bamboo Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: On the beach north of Jacksonville, NC Posts: 3,400	Re: Switch's New 'Puter: That is why you always put a tiny mark on anything you send back. That way you will know. And the buying 8 gigs now might be a good idea. __________________ LINKS 10th Tactical Guard Server Rules and SOP * Kicked? Banned? READ THIS FIRST!* Contact an Admin * Nominate your teammates for a ribbon Stoop and you'll be stepped on; stand tall and you'll be shot at. -Carlos A. Urbizo-

07-22-2008, 01:16 AM	#25 (permalink)
Switch Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 1,234	Re: Switch's New 'Puter: After further consideration on the meaning of Q4 Nehalem, I'm doubting the wisdom of spending so much on a top end mobo if I don't benefit from it in the future. The original idea was to have a mobo that would server as a viable platform for the next few years of potential upgrades --- but it seems a new, dominant socket is headed this way in 6 months, totally ruining that expectation. Also, the Q9450 is rather expensive compared to the Q6600 or the E8500. Would I be better going for a ~$150 mobo and a ~$200 E8500 instead? Damn you ever changing technology. __________________ \|TG\|Switch Better known as: That noob who crashed the chopper. That noob who ran over the mine. That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle. That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

07-22-2008, 01:47 AM	#26 (permalink)
Namebot Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 450	Re: Switch's New 'Puter: Yep. I wouldn't sink a bunch of money into a motherboard when a socket change is right around the corner. Of course I would never buy an expensive motherboard. Just buy what you need. Trying to count on future tech to play out the way you want it to is a good way to be disappointed. __________________

07-22-2008, 09:12 AM	#27 (permalink)
Bamboo Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: On the beach north of Jacksonville, NC Posts: 3,400	Re: Switch's New 'Puter: Like I posted, I think going with a really good mid-range board and CPU would be best. And I personally would choose the e8400 over the 8500 considering they are just so close in speed, and 10 sec. in the BIOS would give you 3x that speed bump. Though I'm still thinking quad core so you will be happier with the games you will be buying over the next 2-3 years. __________________ LINKS 10th Tactical Guard Server Rules and SOP * Kicked? Banned? READ THIS FIRST!* Contact an Admin * Nominate your teammates for a ribbon Stoop and you'll be stepped on; stand tall and you'll be shot at. -Carlos A. Urbizo-

07-26-2008, 12:17 AM	#28 (permalink)
Switch Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 1,234	Re: Switch's New 'Puter: The Q9450 has been purchased! A friend and I are building twin systems and he happened to spot retail box Q9450s for $280 at a local store, so he grabbed 2. That means this build is happening, Sapphires RMA be damned! Ok, back to mobo issue. Stepping down to a less expensive selection, I'm having difficulty seeing the different between all the Asus P5Q offerings. The price range on them goes from 120 to 260 and I cant really see much difference. Could someone explain why one particular model might be better? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...0&Order=PRICED Once a mother board is selected the build will proceed rather quickly. __________________ \|TG\|Switch Better known as: That noob who crashed the chopper. That noob who ran over the mine. That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle. That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

07-26-2008, 12:26 AM	#29 (permalink)
Bamboo Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: On the beach north of Jacksonville, NC Posts: 3,400	Re: Switch's New 'Puter: Here is a better way of looking at them http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131295 It is confusing, and each one has a little of this and less of something else mabey, like SATA connections, USB ports, E-SATA, PCI vs PCI-E X1 slots, etc. Personally, my decision was made easier because I wanted one that had the built in Wi-Fi access point (which my wife is using right now on her laptop in the living room). You need to do the same thing. Make a list of the thing(s) you really want, and look down the list. Usually also the more expensive you go, the more tweaking options you are going to have in the BIOS. The Maximus you were considering for instance is probably going to have way more than the $129 one, because it is the hard core gamer/overclocker board. __________________ LINKS 10th Tactical Guard Server Rules and SOP * Kicked? Banned? READ THIS FIRST!* Contact an Admin * Nominate your teammates for a ribbon Stoop and you'll be stepped on; stand tall and you'll be shot at. -Carlos A. Urbizo-

07-26-2008, 02:17 AM	#30 (permalink)
P8riot Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bradenton, FL Age: 38 Posts: 2,838	Re: Switch's New 'Puter: Agree with Bamboo. All of the 30 or 40 PC's I build have ASUS boards.. for better or for worse. I've bought different boards in the same series without paying much attention and OOPS.. I was short a USB header, or no fan connection in a good spot. I use a hardware RAID card on my performance machines so running out of SATA connections isn't usually an issue. Overall I like the higher end boards because I can mess around with stuff without adding on USB cards or WiFi cards.. __________________ Age of Conan: Tharashk (Taxiarchos), Thaumiel (alt), guild Ars Tactika - Cimmeria XBox360 GamerTag: P8riotOne (but it might also be my son playing - he can game with TG tho!)

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