Re: E-Male's New Build

**E-Male** · 03-01-2010, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Bamboo

E-male, I am all about buying locally and supporting them, but somethings you have to reach out for.

I hear you Bamboo -- Thanks!

As things stand now I am tending towards:

Intel i7 930 processor
ASUS P6X58D Premium motherboard
and some form of water-cooling fan.

I think I am ready to buy a case and then start gathering components, so next decision is the computer case. I read related TG threads on computer cases which leads me to think that a FULL tower will provide better airflow and more space in general, although many do find a mid-size to be perfectly adequate.

I am NOT interested in the fancy cases, as I will be putting mine under the desk. On the other hand, if a fancy model offers substantially better cooling and access, then I will consider it. It appears that all the very fine cases are quite fancy, so I may end up with a pretty box as a footstool...

Clearly, I should be able to find a Cool Master or Thermaltake for under $200 -- but which one...?

All the Cool Master and Thermaltake towers in the $150-75 range look fine.

Help!

EDIT:

Currently researching cases and came across this Coolmaster HAF 932 AMD (reviewed here) , of which a slightly different version, the Coolmaster HAF 932 Full Tower is locally available for $154.

Now if I can find something with the same features but without all the glamour and $50 less...

**Bamboo** · 03-01-2010, 02:40 PM

If you have the room, like you aren't trying to fit the case in a desk or something, then you really should go full size. Why limit yourself. A bigger box means never having to worry about how big the gfx. cards are getting (and they are getting very very big to the point I'm scared to see Nvidia's new stuff). You will have an easier time installing and routing cables. And it might mean you can get a case with some giant fans. Bigger fans mean they move more air and do it much quieter than a tiny high RPM fan.

Also to think about when ordering is shipping costs. A lot of folks see a great price on a case and order it and end up paying $35 in shipping, when they could have paid $15 more for the case somewhere else and gotten free shipping. It really pays to shop around and find out the full cost before you order.

Forum regulars already know what I'm going to say.
Antec p182. But a quick check shows that it isn't really available anymore, having been replaced with the updated p183. I love this case. Awesome cooling, silent cooling fans, extremely easy to work in, all kinds of stuff to help you hide cables for a clean install, tons of room for all the drives you could want, power supply on the bottom in it's own cooling tunnel away from the motherboard, quickly removable dust filters on the front for easy cleaning, and tons of other stuff. And really feels solid. I went to a lot of shops like CompUSA and checked out cases before I bought, and they always felt cheap and plastic like. This feels so solid and bulletproof, mostly due to the sound deadening panels and the metal frame. But it does mean it's a heavy case, so not good if you plan to move often. And I like it doesn't have neon and crap.

I paid $120 US for mine with free shipping because I waited till it was on sale.
Couple of good reviews:
Antec P183: The P182 Gets More Air
Antec P183 Case Review

Also wanted to mention draeh just posted this to his blog:
Pulled the trigger on the case!
Awesome looking case, just way out of the $150 price range.

I wanted to post that because I'm not sure yet how we can fit blogs into the tech forum. He posted something really good and tech related, but unless you know to go look at blogs, you will miss it. I have some articles/guides I want to write, and I'm not sure if it would be better to use a blog or a thread. So I'm starting to wonder if we should have like a sticky where we can post a link to blog posts when they are tech related.

**E-Male** · 03-01-2010, 04:02 PM

Yes, I did previously stumble upon draeh's blog post about his case, so such blog postings do go read.

Again, thank you Bamboo. You are helping me quickly get through a number of decisions that will lay the foundation for the build.

Following on your advice and my 'hunch', I will go with a full tower -- the advantages of more air movement, greater expansion possibilities, and less problems with increasingly large components make the $50 or so well worth it.

The ANTEC P183 is only locally available as a mid-tower at $150 (all my prices are CND), and also a mid-tower P193 for $35 more.

As it happens, I already noted the ANTEC 1200 Ultimate Gamer Case ($179), reviewed here and here.

So for now I'll settle on the ANTEC 1200 unless something else in a full tower at the same price range makes a compelling case for the case. Tomorrow I will wander into a local Pccyber shop and take a look at the ANTEC 1200 in person and consider options (it is a nice store but my first visit left me underwhelmed with the counter-help -- I am not keen on getting advice from underpaid kids...)

As things stand now I am tending towards:

Intel i7 930 processor
ASUS P6X58D Premium motherboard
ANTEC 1200 Full Tower case
and some form of water-cooling fan.

Moving on and thinking about a PSU, I am currently considering the Corsair HX 750W ($190).

EDIT:

There is forum for everything, including case modders, bound to be a good source of opinion on cases. Review of various cases, including the ANTEC 1200 are found here.

**=Sarc=** · 03-01-2010, 07:09 PM

I believe PCCyber is one of the more popular local shops in Ottawa. I have bought items from there before but I find ordering online to be a much easier process and cheaper. OEMExpress is another place I've used before for OEM items but selection is not really that great with local shops.

Tigerdirect isn't my first choice. I've bought from there too but shipping options are limited and they ship parts from the US so it's a little bit longer to get your order. Even though NCIX is in BC and the order may take a while, you're at least saving PST.

Newegg.ca has free shipping on some items so sometimes it's worth looking at parts there. If shipping isn't free but the part is cheap, price match the item on NCIX. The only thing is price matching is done at checkout and you might find out the next day that the price match is rejected (hasn't happened to me though). I don't know if Newegg ships parts from the US though but I would order from Newegg over Tigerdirect. It has a better website for filtering out what you want, more part selection, and the ability to make wishlists is very useful.

Check out the comments on cases on NCIX and Newegg. It's extra info that might come in handy when making a decision. Personally, I would buy everything online. Getting one part locally doesn't save much on shipping and you'll have better selection and prices. Also, a bigger case doesn't really get you more depth for longer video cards. It just means the case is taller with more drive bays. What you want to look for is a harddrive bay that is removable and mounts the drives perpendicular to the case. It uses less space into the video card area and should provide ample cable room for the video card and the harddrives. Definitely make sure the case has rounded edges. Antec cases round the edges and my fingers appreciate not getting cut.

**Dick Blonov** · 03-01-2010, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by =Sarc=

Definitely make sure the case has rounded edges. Antec cases round the edges and my fingers appreciate not getting cut.

I second the motion. Even the older ones (like my SLK-3700 AMD) had removable drive bays, rounded edges, and really solid construction.

DB

**Jeepo** · 03-01-2010, 09:37 PM

E-male, check this out before you buy that case:

Dragonlord PC-K62

If I was to buy a case it would be this one, safe for if I ever need to move it and very clever and roomy. Available with or without the "Glass" side and lighting.

**E-Male** · 03-02-2010, 12:02 PM

More thanks for the great replies, guys!

I am going crazy over trying to pin down a case (although there is no rush to do so). There are many great cases and fine manufacturers. One thing that does not factor is the weight -- it goes on the floor and stays there.

I am rethinking the mid-tower cases, as I am unlikely to use more than 3 or 4 drives and the water cooling system I am looking at does not take up that much space.

At the top of my list for water cooling is the Corsair CWCH50-1 Hydro H50 -- very easy to install, no maintainence, excellent reviews and great price ($92).

So with the case undecided, I have reached the following decisions:

Intel i7 930 chip
ASUS P6XD58-P MoB
Corsair HX850 PSU
Corsair Hydro H50 liquid cooling

now on to RAM and video card.

When it comes to the card I would like something that could be twinned should I feel flush with cash down the road. I am currently considering the:

ATI Radeon HD 5870

and as for RAM:

Corsair Dominator PC12800 12G 1600 MHz DDR3

RAM is another puzzle to me, as I wonder what performance differnce I will get out of 2000 vs 1600MHz and would like to know a good buying strategy for expanding the amount of ram over time (buy a small amount of very expensive ram a bit at a time). This is the stuff I understand the least at this point.

**Bamboo** · 03-02-2010, 03:15 PM

Ok, bunch of stuff to cover.
First up, get in touch with one of you buddies here in the states that live near a MicroCenter because check out this deal
Intel i7 930 Processor $250 @ microcenter b&m
Here are their locations, and hopefully another TG guy in your squad lives near one and will help you out. I would if I lived near one.
Welcome to Micro Center: 22 Locations Nationwide
That deal is SICK even with shipping it to you!

Case:
If you look at the dementions of the cases you mentioned, they are all about the same. I didn't believe you when you said the p183 was a mid-tower, I had to go look it up to confirm. My p182 case is huge and the 183 is based on it!!! Plus with the 182/183/193, it has 2 removable caddies for your harddrives. See what I circled below

Those both come out. So what I did was just put my HDs on the bottom caddie and use the case without the top one. It means there is tons more room that could fit any card ever made with like 8 inches to spare, plus more air flow. You can also put a fan in there, which would suck even more air in. Not that you need it, as I run my case with all the fans on low all the time and it still keeps it cool.

Just saying, the 1200 my be labled the "ultimate gamer case", but if you don't want all the neon and window stuff you don't have to.

As for RAM, I posted an article a few months ago with a major RAM test for i7 and they found that there was little or no difference in benchmarks between super expensive sets (faster like the 2000 MHZ) and decently priced ones (like 1600MHz). Not sure where that article is now. Also don't go crazy and buy too much ram, like 12 gigs. I have tried very hard to use all of my 4 gigs at once, and it takes a lot of work to even get up to 3 gigs being used. That includes a couple of times accidentally running both ARMA and PRmod at the same time. I would be alt-tabed out of ARMA doing something, and bunch of guys would come on TS and want to jump into some PR and I forgot to exit out of ARMA. Didn't even notice it. So just go with a good 6 gig kit. I like the Corsair you mentioned above. They should have lifetime warranties.

I still haven't seen any games that are coded or actually can use much over 2 gigs. I know that some like World at War wants to use more and can, but not much more than 2 gigs.

I would have also picked the Corsair Modular PSU you did, or the 750watt. I think you will be fine with either, even if you went with one of the new Nvidia 480 cards due for release at the end of the month.

I will mention too that you might be getting ahead of yourself with all the dreams of overclocking. The truth is, with the system you are building, it won't make much difference in most things. It will already smoke any game, and I don't think your CPU is going to be your limiting factor even running it stock. Video editing will also run super fast at stock. Overclocking isn't going to give you like a 20fps bump or shave a ton of time off your video renders (though it will save a bit). But unless you use the power saving features of your motherboard, what it will do is run up your electric bill. My ASUS MB right now changes the multiplyer on the CPU so that when it needs power, like during gaming, it jumps up to my overclock of 3.0 at a x9 multiplyier. But most of the time it runs at a 1.** something clock speed with a x6 multiplier.

See what I mean here in the lower left box;

Just saying, something to think about.

Thomas Jefferson:

I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less we use our power the greater it will be.

Just saying, something to think about.
I would suggest running stock for a good while after you buy, and then maybe when you know you are about to edit some video give it a bump till your done.

**CingularDuality** · 03-02-2010, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by E-Male

[SIZE="3"]I am going crazy over trying to pin down a case (although there is no rush to do so). There are many great cases and fine manufacturers. One thing that does not factor is the weight -- it goes on the floor and stays there.

I am rethinking the mid-tower cases, as I am unlikely to use more than 3 or 4 drives and the water cooling system I am looking at does not take up that much space.

Well, if it helps, I just purchased the following case and video card:
Thermaltake Element T VK90001N2Z Black SECC/Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
MSI N250GTS Twin Frozr 1G GeForce GTS 250 1GB 256-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready

I chose the case mostly for a combo deal to go with the PSU. I wasn't picky about it, knowing that Thermaltake has a certain level of quality that I know I'd be satisfied with...

Before it arrived, I was a little bit apprehensive about how much room there would be, but as you see, my worries were completely unfounded. This thing is huge!

Anyway, here's a pic to see how that vid card fits in that mid tower case:

**E-Male** · 03-02-2010, 04:41 PM

Again, very grateful to the time you have taking to write a detailed reply, Bamboo. You are helping to clear the air on many complicated issues and prevent me from unnecessarily overbuying.

I see the logic of your p182 case decision. To pick up the comparable p183 would cost me $150 CND, and another $30 dollars would deliver the ANTECT 1200 full tower. There is also a Thermaltake VL 2001 W2Z Element V full tower available locally at $155, so I need to think a bit about what to do. My choices are all local, as with the weight of cases I loose any price advantage online over shipping. Nonetheless, plenty of good choices within a few blocks of me.

Later on I'll make a few notes of the pros and cons on a few of my final case choices and report.

Very helpful information regarding the limits of RAM speed, so I will stick to 1600 and Corsair, just to keep things simple, and look for either 4 or 6 Gigs. This immediately saves me a around $200. Considering options such as:

Corsair XMS PC12800 RAM - 6GB, (3x2GB), DDR3, 1600MHz, DIMM, Class 7
or
Corsair Core i7 Dominator 6GB PC12800 DDR3 RAM - Tri Channel, 1600MHz, 6144MB (3 x 2048MB), DHX

It appears that (locally) there is a difference of about $50 between 4 gig of good 1600 Corsair and 6 gig, so I'll likely get 6G.

Thanks for the tip on US sources, but I will buy through CND retailers (even though much is shipped via the States). Everybody complains about their local economy but nothing is going to change if we we keep shopping out of town...

You mentioned something about "running stock for a good while after you buy" -- could you explain more?

And no, I do not intend to immediately jump in a start fiddling with voltage, timings, (and god knows what else) to overclock the rig. The ASUS P6XD58 board has some built in software for that (as does my old ASUS MoB), and for a while I will simply play with the built-in options and see what they can deliver.

As to the Corsair Hydro H50, as it is only around $40 more than an average good heat sink, I think that I might as well get it -- particularly if it will help me keep the fans on low and keep the noise level down.

And thanks, CingularDuality, for the note about the Thermaltake Element T VK90001N2Z Mid Tower -- it runs at $80, I would save $100 from the ANTEC 1200 -- something to consider.

**E-Male** · 03-02-2010, 07:55 PM

UPDATE on Video Card Choices.

I am beginning to see that there is often very minor (negligible) differences in certain categories of product. The ATI Radeon HD 5870 card I have been considering ($438) is comparable to the recently released ASUS Radeon HD 5850 ($323 CND), which "When you finally factor in that the graphics card was capable of overclocking to the same speeds as the Radeon HD 5870 and is over an inch shorter allowing for compatability in smaller cases, it seems like a great purchase."

$100 dollars less, same performance, and my card manufacturer is the same as my Mobo maker -- ASUS, which I suspect adds value.

YET, in an exceptionally comprehensive review, the ATI Radeon HD 5870 (September 23, 2009) notes that "the Radeon HD 5870 offers a good value proposition, as the majority of GTX 285 graphics cards currently cost around $350 [US]" . . . "possibly one the best graphics cards we have ever reviewed in this price point. It is the fastest single-GPU graphics card you can purchase today, the power consumption levels are excellent, and hopefully with better software support overclocking will improve as well."

The ATI card runs hot, but comes with a three year warranty.

Hmm, maybe I will stay with the ATI Radeon HD 5870 at this point, although I do not know how the product may have been ecplised in its price point since Sept 2009.

**Dick Blonov** · 03-02-2010, 08:50 PM

My ASUS 5850 is the fourth ASUS video card I own. My first card (the EAX800XT AGP) is still running fine.

DB

**=Sarc=** · 03-02-2010, 09:33 PM

My rule of thumb is to spend around $300 each on CPU and GPU. These parts go hand in hand and I find that spending equally on these parts results in well matched hardware. It's also the price point for the second best GPU in a product line. So the HD 5850 is the card I would buy. If you were also thinking about getting a second card later, think about how much later that is. You might not be able to find the same card new (but you can mix and match with Crossfire). Personally, I spend the $300 on the GPU and then upgrade about 18 months later. It's great performance right away, pretty good one year later, then it might show signs of needing an upgrade to run games on high detail. With the top of the line, you pay extra and can probably get an extra 6 months over the second best part. If you want the part to last the longest, get the best. If you want to maintain all the graphics goodness, get the second best. It costs more in the long run by a couple hundred but you get the latest hardware features and spreads the cost over time.

**Vulcan** · 03-03-2010, 12:11 AM

I am using this case and it's very good and a great price. It has quite a few fan slots and very sturdy. Best case I've come across in quite some time.

My setup is a gtx 260, asus p5q which all fits perfectly.

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16811119137

A more advanced version
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16811119216

Also i'd like to point out a few pro's to using a local shop. On some gear like hard drives and ram you can be guaranteed that if something is wrong you don't have to wait to get it replaced. They have multiples in the store and you just go right back that day versus shipping an RMA. You also have a less likely chance of a bad part from a store that tests their parts first. I know my local guy checks everything right there if I ask and it hasn't been tested. He's very good though. They may also match your prices.