asch

Before I got into overclocking computers, I would just purchase name brand machines like a Dell. They were great, but I wanted to do more... and learn more. It became sort of a hobby. I was always on forums and sites that dealt with overclocking, what parts are better than others, tips & tricks, etc. The first machine I built was before I really learned anything... and boy did I pay for it in the end. Six months later I was building another new machine. That new one lasted quite a bit longer. It should take me up to at least BF2... we'll see though.

The direction I took with my machine (i.e. overclocking an AMD) isn't for everyone and I don't suggest it for everyone.

Usarion

I totally agree with Wyz. But if you are a stubborn Son of a...and you are hell bent on keeping it, there is a little trick that you can do that will not freak out windows while you do such a major change, 99% of the time.

The trick is to go into your device manager,"right-click" on all of your devices 1 by 1, and uninstall everything. Of course you will lose your mouse, and keyboard, so do those last. After you have done this change out your parts, and start your machine up. Windows will just use its default drivers until you tell it otherwise. This tends to allow Windows to accept the facelift with little problems.

REFORMAT!!!

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asch

Oh, I also wanted to mention that the parts I listed take you down a certain path (i.e. AMD, PCI-e, 64-bit, etc.) and that's a choice you'll have to make. There are definitely other choices like Intel and sticking with AGP graphics. Both are viable alternatives... though I would still stick with the AMD. :-)

You could probably save a couple hundred if you went with an AMD AGP solution because you can stick with your existing graphics card.

Twisted_Firestarter

That is interesting. We went in opposite directions. I started off building my own systems from scratch, overclocking and such and just got tired of messing with it. So, I started buying brand name computers like Dell .

Now, typcially, I'll buy a Dell computer I like, but leave off essentials like video card and sound card and install those myself. What I get with this approach is a base computer that is solid, all the correct motherboard, hardrive, etc. drivers are installed and I don't have to worry about. Simply installing the graphics and sound take minimum effort.

I haven't decided if I will get a new computer for BF2 yet or not. Right now I'm running a 3GHz intel and a ATI 9800XT video card. We'll see how that holds up in the new game.

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DarkWombat

I agree with what Asch recommended. Going the AMD64 route is not only cheaper, but it runs just as well, if not better, than a P4 of similar price and specs. Plus, the 64-bit interface will be more useful in a year or so when 64-bit software is released, and if you have a 64-bit capable processer, such as the AMD64, Opteron, Xeon (hehe...no), or one of Intel's new 64-bit P4's, you'll get better performance and multitasking.

I also agree with the PCI-E SLI route. It's not that expensive to start off with a $165 mobo and $185 vid card and upgrade as prices go down or you get more money and can afford more power. I for one go with Gigabyte boards, been recommending and using them for a while and they're very reliable, well-priced, and packed with all sorts of goodies (may be overkill, but hey, you never know!). So I'm recommending the $165 Gigabyte GA-K8NXP-SLI. It's a monster of a board with 8 SATA connectors (you probably don't have any hard drives that support SATA but it's good to have it for later), 4 DDR slots, SLI support, Dual Gigabit Ethernet (don't really know WHY you need two, but oh well), Firewire, 10 USB ports (hehe), and some pretty decent built-in audio. You can get another audio card if you wish of course, but for now if you want to keep overall cost down and get a system that should last you a long time with a lot of expandability, then I'd recommend this motherboard. Also, it has a nice feature of all Gigabyte boards: Dual Bios. If your BIOS gets screwed up, you're in deep crap. With Dual Bios, if your Bios gets screwed up, the board automaticalyl boots off of a backup chip with a copy of the last settings of the Bios that worked. It's saved my butt several times when I was tinkering a bit too much. The board also has a DPS (Dual Power Supply) card that helps supply consistent power to the CPU so you don't get power spikes. As far as today's hardware goes, it's not going to make much of a difference now if you're not getting the most powerful (and consequentially, wattage-guzzling) hardware, but it's a nice thing to have for the future. Again, I'm stressing that you pay a bit more now for something that will last you a long time so you won't have to spend as much for a new board later, not to mention the time it'll take to upgrade that.

For the case, I'm recommending the Antec P160. It's designed to be a quiet case, all-aluminum construction so it's light as well, has two fan slots but cools very well, rubber grommets on the hard drive racks to reduce vibration, a removable motherboard tray (very useful) and a nifty front panel that tilts up and down with a temperature sensor, usb and firewire ports and the power and reset buttons. Not to mention it looks pretty damned sexy and elegant to boot, and it's not as expensive as most Lian Li cases.

For the vid card, I'm recommending nVidia, they've worked great for me, their new cards absolutely rock and even the low-priced 6600GT kicks major butt, not to mention that you can buy another one and slap it into an SLI setup to get performance that rivals the almighty 6800 Ultra, and the ATI x800 cards and such. SLI is a really nice thing to look for because of the fact that you can spend less now and upgrade later without trashing anything. : Here's some Geforce 6600 GT cards to consider.

As for the hard drives, what everybody else said. You CAN keep the old ones and throw them into the new system, but do some uninstalling of devices first. There shouldn't be a real issue if you wiped the hard drives and used them in the new system as a clean slate. But I would recommend considering purchasing some Serial ATA (SATA) drives in the future, since they can transmit data faster, and theyr'e the same price as an IDE drive if you look hard enough (there's some Seagate 80gb SATA drives for $68 a piece!) If you DO consider SATA, I'd recommend getting two of the same kiind and creting a RAID 0 array, which the Gigabyte board supports. RAID basically makes two hard drives work as one, each hard drive gets some data here and the other gets some data there and the RAID controller chip slaps it together. RAID 0 arrays are very useful for hard-drive intensive software, such as video editing and gaming (well...everything in gaming is hardware intensive ).

As for the memory, I'm looking at the Corsair XMS 1GB modules, for $165 a pop, but that might be a bit pricey if you're not gonna consider overclocking. You can get 1GB of memory for about $90 or so if you go for the "value' stuff. Just stick with brand names like Kingston, Corsair, Crucial...any more?

CPU, I'd recommend the Athlon 64 3200+. At $190, it's well-priced, and according to some users it overclocks the best out of the 3000+ to 4000+ series. I wouldn't recommend getting anything higher than the 3200+, because aside from the huge price jump to the 3500+, the 3000+ and 3200+ use 90nm technology, as opposed to the older, more common .13 micron. This means that the spaces between each transistor on the 90nm chips is 90nm apart, as opposed to .13 microns (aka 130nm). It's one helluva small distance, yes, but also the smaller distances mean that there is less resistance between the individual transistors (less distance for electrons to move from transistor to transistor), and basically you get lower temperatures and better power efficiency than the same chip built on .13 micron architecture. Think of it like putting the grocery store several blocks closer to your house. It takes less energy (aka gas) and time to get there, so it's more efficient to go to the grocery store if it's closer. A 40 nanometer difference may not seem like a lot, but when you've got millions upon millions of transistors shooting electrons back and forth, it really adds up. Anyways, there's tons of benchmarks out there that prove this if you look around, just by getting a 90nm CPU your temps drop by 4-8 degrees Celsius.

So ok, that's my take. I tend to ramble a bit and this is probably a lot more than you asked for, but it's good to know the little things too, because they can make all the difference, and only cost ya a few bucks more but can save you tons of headaches. Good luck on your system, I'm getting ready to build a new one too (with those components for the most part, but I'm doing the whole thing from scratch.)

Tempus

Many thanks for all of the ideas. I'm just about ready to buy the parts.. One last question:

Should I go with pc3200 memory, or with an eye toward future upgrading, should I go with something faster? And what would that be? I am buying the amd64 3200+ 939..

Thanks again!

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3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

asch

The motherboard usually determines the speed. For example, the motherboard you are looking at can support up to pc3200 memory chips. That doesn't mean you can't get faster memory. What it really means is that faster memory will just be limited. By the time you need to upgrade your motherboard again, the "faster" memory that you get will probably be outdated. AMD supports DDR and plans to go up to DDR500. I'm guessing they will skip DDR2 (which Intel supports) and go straight to DDR3.

There is a reason to get faster memory than your board is made for.... and that reason is Overclocking. However, results vary. Results vary with standard memory. And the actual gains probably won't be worth the extra money spent. If you want the faster memory, you would definitely have to research which memory has the best results for the particular motherboard you're getting. It's not worth it IMO.

Tempus

Thanks Asch.. Ok, so assume I will do only minor OCing.. I will get the Corsair XMS, but should I get the $133 Corsair 3200C2, or the $209 Corsair 3200XL?

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Contact me with server/player/admin issues.




-- Suits are what you wear when doing things you shouldn’t want to do anyway.

FROM THE TACTICAL GAMER PRIMER.
3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

Vulcan

the difference is the Timing

c2 = 2-2-2-5

XL = 2-3-3-6

The XL will allow you to run your ram at higher speeds, so if you wanna overclock go for the XL. If you don't how to use ram timing buy the C2.

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=DdogG=

isnt that backwards?

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asch

That does look backwards. The timing of 2-2-2-5 is the better memory. I would suggest that if you plan to overclock. Make sure to look at the specs of the memory chip. It's most likely the more expensive pair.

Vulcan

yeah that's backwards, my bad

XL = 2-2-2-5

c2 = 2-3-3-6

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asch

Another thing to note Tempus.... since you are planning to re-install everything on your machine... do it right and install the 64bit version of windows. There is a free upgrade for current WinXP Pro users.

Tempus

No drivers...

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Contact me with server/player/admin issues.




-- Suits are what you wear when doing things you shouldn’t want to do anyway.

FROM THE TACTICAL GAMER PRIMER.
3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

asch

What components will be missing the drivers?