L0GiCaL1

I missed that comment earlier... heh, maybe they should look at the prices of the new P4 Extreme Editions? I would rather pay $750 for a FX51 than $1000 for a P4 EE. I see the A64 3400+ as a good in-between chip @ $475.

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Raven Shield Admin

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. - Douglas Adams

Overlag

lol indeed...

over here the prices are (after 17.5 tax)

£162 A64 3000
£204 A64 3200
£312 A64 3400
£528 FX51

£131 P4 2600
£135 P4 2800 (dont sell well compaired to 2600, so its price reduced atm)
£170 P4 3000
£217 P4 3200
£317 P4 3400
£670 P4 EE 3200

I brought my A64 3200 when it was the only one (and the FX51 of corse), it was £370 i think but its great so i dont care AMD are cheaper for each rating, are faster for each rating and are not Intel so.... its 3 good things... Oh, and the A64 not even got dual channel yet and still owns Intels.

One thing i still must add, HOW THE HELL IS INTEL MORE STABLE THAN AMD? im really getting sick of this stupid claim.

I might buy an Intel setup this week just to see how much more stable it can be... can you really beat 100% stable?

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From Adam Webb

L0GiCaL1

I explained it in the post previous to the one you quoted. More agressive core timings in the AMD (which is why they run warmer as well) causes instability over EXTENDED heavy load periods that the Intel does not seem to suffer from. I'm not saying that applications run in short term low-load conditions like home use or gaming are any more stable, but again in a server cluster I would much prefer the Intel to the AMD. As for A64, it has yet to be really tested under such circumstances so I don't know if AMD has changed how it handles things. I seriously doubt that we will find the answer to that without some heavy duty 64-bit programs to load test it.

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Raven Shield Admin

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. - Douglas Adams

Overlag

HAHAHA they run warmer now??????

how comes a XP3200 runs at about 75 watts , an A64 3200 runs at about 60watts, but a P4 3200 runs at 80watts? Oh, and what about a Prescott, oooooh 110watts at 3200 quality, AMD are still hotter i guess

(i will find the offical heat outputs if you wish, but i cant be bother really, you will probably say its still "warmer")

your thinking of the TB1200 age, which was 3 bloody years ago, yes they sucked then for server useage, hell, some of them couldnt open JPG files but that was 3 whole YEARS ago. Alot of companies have tested MP servers (XP based Tbreds and Bartons) and the New Opterons, and guess what, none report what you say.

get with the times mate

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From Adam Webb

Overlag

and anyway, why are we using this "more stable" arguement for a home pc? Now the AMD's pricing is competative compared to the same speed (err slightly slower) P4 people would be mad not to buy AMD. and who knows, in 6-12months once 64bit starts becoming mainstream it might just get 5-10% better too...

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From Adam Webb

L0GiCaL1

Your understanding of wattage is commendable but again you do not consider that more wattage is not necessarily more temperature. Heat is a direct by-product of resistance, which also means that even though the AMD might use less power it could still produce more heat due to poor wattage distribution. Just as an example:

A hair-dryer puts out 1500W but cannot solder a connection but a soldering iron puts out 1000W and can melt a hole thru the hair-dryer.

So based on this example if applied to wiring pathways on a micro-processor, the Intel could use more wattage and still be cooler due to better heat distribution in the die. Being with the times does not have anything to do with that statement, as it is totally explainable by the physical laws of the universe. AMD sacrificed heat distribution to perform at higher on-die frequencies which directly relates to the short-term performance boosts and the long term high load instability (due to rising heat playing the fool with their circuitry).

As for the companies testing AMD products, how many of them still use Intel products and how much market-share does Intel have in the high-end server market. The "as you say" *New* Opteron systems haven't seen enough time to have an opinion made one way or another. The Xeon is a very comparable processor based on the ever expanding and always rock-solid P4 core. I have nothing against either company and use them both now and will continue to do so. I am currently even pricing an A64 3200+ system to purchase in the near future. AMD has done the proper thing in pushing us into the 64-bit era. Their aggressive marketing and pricing strategy forces progression in the field by both AMD and Intel.

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Raven Shield Admin

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. - Douglas Adams

Overlag

A64 3200 and XP 3200 are cooler than a P4 3200 period, if you dont wana believe that, then fine

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From Adam Webb

en4rcment

:x Ok guys....here's where I'm at...

The guy that I buy computer parts from says that the Intel P4 3.0 GHz has a BIG fan on it and is VERY loud. He used the words 'vacuum cleaner' to describe its sound. He says he's had quite a few complaints on it already. He highly recommended me staying with the P4 2.8 GHz. Thoughts?

I also didn't know that a new mobo would not be auto-sensed by Windows XP and that I will have to reinstall most of my programs ( :shock: ). How did all of you (or how would you) approach this situation? My brother has a portable 200 gig harddrive with a USB port so we were just gonna backup my harddrive on there and move relevant files over. I don't want to lose my mods (or my porn collection ops: ).

Also, any recommendations on saving my important Ghost Recon files would be greatly appreciated.

:evil: This is not going to be as easy as I had hoped...

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CingularDuality

Can't tell you 'bout the fan that comes with the chip... I've never kept the stock fan on any CPU of mine, anyway... Checking www.pricewatch.com , however, indicates that it'll cost you about $50 more to get a 3.0GHz. I don't know if it's worth that kind of jump in price for such a small jump in performance...
I don't know what you're being told, but WinXP will work just fine if you just move your HDD over to a new board/cpu. WinXP will detect the new hardware automatically. The worst that could happen is that Windows gets its panties in a bunch about too much hardware being different and it wants you to call Microsoft to activate your OS again.

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Overlag

200mhz in the P4 world is nothing, so go with the lower ranged one, 2.6-2.8ghz seems a good mixture of price/performance. And all P4's overclock to 3.5ghz at least anyway. As for the CPU cooler being loud? well i thought Intel CPU's was cooler than AMD CPU's L0GiCaL1? How come the cooler is so loud for the top end P4?

In most cases WinXP WILL **** up when changing motherboards, and will become unstable. Changing from an AMD rig, to a Intel rig will certainly cause MAJOR issues, and i doubt it will work at all. For instance, the way WinXP acesses harddrives, it will be looking for a HDD attached to a VIA southbridge, but it wont find one, so will lockup on boot up.

Changing between different VIA boards was fine, I went from KT266 to KT333 fine with WinXP.

Changing from VIA KT333 to Nvidia Nforce2 was ok but was unstable so i reformated anyway. Nforce2 back to KT333 failed compleatly (motherboard broke down, so i downgraded to the same KT333 board...)

A Fresh install will make your new Rig feel even faster though....

...But Why you choosing Intel? :?

en4rcment

This is the way I hoped it would go...

This is what I was told would happen...


You guys have to get on the same page here for me...either the OS is gonna crash or it's not...If it is, I wanted some suggestions on how to save important applications and saved stuff to make the move easier...


Well I had an AMD, I want to try an intel now. I've spoken to alot of people who play Ghost Recon with this CPU and they have been very happy with the performance of it. Also, the guy I buy parts from is currently favoring the Intel over the AMD. He has extensive experience with both.

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Overlag

its a mixed bag with the XP thing, Sometimes it will mess up, sometimes it wont. its worth a try, but i doubt it will work changing from AMD type system, to Intel. Even if you got a new AMD i doubt it will work either, since they are new chipsets now.

What size/type HDD you have now? maybe it will be worth to get a new SATA drive as well... I dunno, depends on the buget.

How many of them people comparing AMD to Intel have an A64 though? its hardly fair to compare a XP1800 to a P4 3ghz is it?

If your not overclocking, AMD would be the better choice, if you want to mess with overclocking, Intel will be better, 50-75% overclock not unheard of. DONT get a prescott CPU.

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From Adam Webb

Apophis

FYI:

I was running an AMD Athlon XP 2800+ on an MSI nForce2 Motherboard.

I bought a new P4P800E motherboard and Intel P4 2.6GHz CPU and dropped them in my machine. I started it up with the same hard drives and all the rest of the hardware attached and booted Windows XP. It found most all of the hardware. I installed the new drivers for the new motherboard and rebooted. Windows found the rest of the hardware and the machine has ran great ever since.

With two exceptions.....

I have problems with any DirectPlay 8.1 games.
I have problems with some video aspects of Half-Life based games.

I've overclocked it up to 3GHz and have had zero temperature or stability issues. My computer has been far more enjoyable now that i've gone back to Intel from AMD.

Just my personal experiences...

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L0GiCaL1

Now that was an unwarranted gibe comment, and not what I would expect from a forum moderator. To answer that remark, explain why one brand of fan is louder than another that move the same amount of air? They just happened to use a loud fan manufacturer to save cost? Loud is not necessarily more or less effective, just at a different auditory level. Not unheard of. Poor machining of the ball bearings that the fan spins on or the motor windings not being balanced or as precise could cause the fan to be louder, not to mention different blade angles and how it attacks the air it is trying to move. You can get quieter heatsink/fan combos.

Now to not be totally biased against Overlag (which I'm not, just pointing out large gaps in his logic), he is correct in his statement that most of the people are you talking to with the P4 3.0ghz systems have not compared them to the Athlon 64's. For the price of your 3.0 ghz P4, you can obtain a A64 3200+ with 1 MB of L2 cache (twice as much as the comparable P4), and probably get a better motherboard with more future expandability options cheaper than the Intel motherboard. The AMD system would also mean that you would not the higher risk of WinXP instability with the motherboard change, not to mention the AMD system also will out-perform the P4 3.0 in every task you could possibly throw at it. The only Intel chips that even stand a chance against it are the new P4 Extreme Editions and the Xeon both of which are way out of the price range. Go with the AMD. When Overlag and myself (who have been arguing this whole topic about the benefits and downsides of both processor types) agree the AMD is the better choice for your computing needs, there is something to be said for that.

L0GiCaL1

Also, if you are interested in SATA harddrives and RAID options, I might suggest finding a motherboard with the Silicon Image 3515 controller as it is totally blowing the Promise controllers out of the water. Gigabyte motherboards seem to be utilizing the Silicon Image controller. The GA-K8NNXP is a monster board that is doing very well.

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Raven Shield Admin

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