Upgrading my Mobo and Cpu... - Page 5

**Overlag** · 02-17-2004, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by en4rcment

Ok guys...

Yesterday I went in with an open mind and hit the web hard for reviews of the AMD Athlon64 3200+.

Reading reviews and benchmark tests are difficult, since one test will show one processor winning and another will show another processor winning.

After reading through many, many, reviews. It does seem that Athlon64 3200+ seems to do better in the gaming arena that the similarily-priced P4's (the EE P4's can beat the Athlon, but who wants to pay that kinda money?). The 3200+ even beat it's next generation brother, the FX-51 on some tests. What I don't understand is how P4's win at 3D rendering (most of the time) but AMD wins at 3D games (you would think the cpu that could render faster would be able to give faster fps in 3d games). I don't have much use for mpeg encoding or MP3 converting. I use these processes very infrequently when compared to gaming.

Dual channel memory, and HT (daul CPU's, one logical and one phyiscal) helps rendering. HT can sometimes reduce performance in games.... Sometimes. Prescott is suppose to improve this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by en4rcment

My problem seems to be deciding between the two below package options now:

The Intel route(priced at newegg.com):

-Intel Pentium 4/ 2.8C GHz 800MHz FSB, 512K Cache, Hyper Threading Technology
-Intel 875P Chipset Motherboard for Intel Socket 478 CPU, Model "D875PBZLK"
-Corsair XMS Extreme Memory Speed Series, (Twin Pack) 184 Pin 1GB(512MBx2) DDR PC-3200
TOTAL: $555.00

The AMD route(priced at Mwave.com):

-AMD ATHLON 64 3200+
-ASUS K8V DLX
-KINGSTON 1GB DDR400(512MB X 2) (yeah, I would spring $40 more for name-brand memory)
TOTAL: $561.28

Both options would be a HUGE upgrade from my current system. With Intel, I would be set up for the future of dual channel memory. With AMD I would be set up for the future of 64 bit technology.

I have a lot of soul-searching to do here. Plus, I want to see if I can get these prices down...

well, the 2800 P4 will be quiet a bit slower than the A64 3200, so i think the price difference is jusitified. But you say you would be set for a future of dual channel or 64bit... Dont think that way. The next proccessors will have new sockets. Socket 754 (a64) as a slight longer life left than the Socket 478 (P4). New P4 prescotts will be using the new Socket 775 apart from the few you see on preorder now (still tops out at 3.2ghz on socket 478). Mean while the socket 754 boards will be getting a downgrade in performance! going from 1mb cache to 512kb, and even getting rid of 64bit! But then, the PC market is like that hehe...

just throwing a spanner in the works

**Overlag** · 02-17-2004, 10:50 PM

oh, and keep the corsair for both rigs! or if u can find that Adata i mentioned earlier.......

en4rcment · 02-19-2004, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overlag

oh, and keep the corsair for both rigs! or if u can find that Adata i mentioned earlier.......

Why would I want to keep the dual Channel memory if I go with the Athlon64? It doesn't use dual channel memory...

Also, How much better is CAS latency 2.5 and 2, because the kingston memory I want to get is 3-3-3...

**Overlag** · 02-19-2004, 11:36 AM

its may be "dual channel memory" but its still 2x512mb sticks, the kingston is the same, 2x512mb sticks. Ignore the marketing.

any 2 (or even number of) sticks that are the same size and same make are "dual channel memory" capable....... I thought we explained this earlier?

en4rcment · 02-19-2004, 02:01 PM

Ok...I wasn't sure that Dual Channel Memory would function as single channel memory.

However, with the Athlon and ASUS, I'm around $400. I needed to find 1GIG PC3200 CAS 2.5 or 2 memory for under $200...

I can't find adata anywhere yet...

L0GiCaL1 · 02-19-2004, 02:15 PM

http://www.pcwonderinc.com/51pc400mhzdd4.html

en4rcment · 02-19-2004, 02:35 PM

Awesome site....awesome prices!!!

Two things:

-Will CL 2.5 be good enough for me?

-Have you ever purchased from this site?

L0GiCaL1 · 02-19-2004, 02:52 PM

#1 Yes

#2 Yes

en4rcment · 02-19-2004, 02:59 PM

Thanks Logical!!!

Just for my own knowledge. what would you estimate is the performance increases between CL3, 2.5, and 2?

L0GiCaL1 · 02-19-2004, 06:58 PM

You are probably looking at 10-15% increase in RAM performance for an overall boost of say 3-5% going from CAS 3 to CAS 2.5. Since I have never installed CAS 2 RAM in any machine I can't tell you about the difference between CAS 2 and CAS 2.5. Those are just estimations because it depends on how you clock the RAM in the BIOS. I'm sure Overlag can give you a really good answer on that since I don't O/C.

**Overlag** · 02-19-2004, 08:20 PM

well, its all like 1% diff, 2.5 is fine, but im always after 2-2-2-5 stuff, hence i dont like the idea of this PC4000 3-4-4-8 stuff, why bother running at 250mhz if your running so high latencies that PC3200 2-2-2-5 would beat it?

is it 2.5-3-3-8?

the corsair would be worth it IMO.

en4rcment · 02-20-2004, 02:20 PM

The site only lists the generic memory as TRUE CL 2.5. http://www.pcwonderinc.com/51pc400mhzdd4.html

I also like the Corsair, but I need to get 1 gig of memory for $150-$200. My budget is maxed out. Why would I spend so much more money for a 1% difference?

Do you know of any sites that have memory in the 2-2-2-5 specs and are reasonably priced?

**Overlag** · 02-20-2004, 03:08 PM

nope
2.5 is fine its just my personal prefference (allows more overclock 2-2-2-5 stuff)

en4rcment · 02-20-2004, 05:05 PM

Hey Overlag,

I went to the ASUS website, and they tested their mobo (K8V Deluxe) with a bunch of memory. Just to be safe, I wanted to get a memory brand they had tested with (corsair,kingston, adata, kingmax, etc).

Look at this good deal on Kingston PC-3200 512Mb stick CL 2.5 (it's only $89).

Newegg price

You approve?

Also, If I buy the CPU/Mobo bundle from Mwave.com, the cpu comes as an OEM without the stock fan and heatsink. Anyone know where I can get the EXACT fan and heatsink that comes with the retail Athlon64 3200+? The fan is supposed to be very good (and quiet).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sidebar- I just wanted to thank both of you (Overlag and Logical1) for taking the time to help me understand CPU's, mobos, and memory better. I would have been sick to my stomach if I had made a quick impulse buy only to find out later that I had not bought the setup that best suited my needs. You both have been EXTREMELY helpful and I cannot thank you enough!

L0GiCaL1 · 02-20-2004, 08:22 PM

En4... get an aftermarket cooler.. you will always get better results and they typcially don't break the bank. Also on MWAVE, if you purchase the motherboard you want you can at the same time select processor and heatsink/fan options. Try this:

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/ProdMB-AS...E=Motherboards

It is in about the middle of the page.

02-17-2004, 10:50 PM	#62 (permalink)
Overlag Join Date: May 2003 Location: NE Outer London, UK Age: 26 Posts: 1,540	oh, and keep the corsair for both rigs! or if u can find that Adata i mentioned earlier....... __________________ From Adam Webb

02-19-2004, 11:36 AM	#64 (permalink)
Overlag Join Date: May 2003 Location: NE Outer London, UK Age: 26 Posts: 1,540	its may be "dual channel memory" but its still 2x512mb sticks, the kingston is the same, 2x512mb sticks. Ignore the marketing. any 2 (or even number of) sticks that are the same size and same make are "dual channel memory" capable....... I thought we explained this earlier? __________________ From Adam Webb

02-19-2004, 02:01 PM	#65 (permalink)
en4rcment Join Date: May 2003 Age: 35 Posts: 620	Ok...I wasn't sure that Dual Channel Memory would function as single channel memory. However, with the Athlon and ASUS, I'm around $400. I needed to find 1GIG PC3200 CAS 2.5 or 2 memory for under $200... I can't find adata anywhere yet... __________________

02-19-2004, 02:15 PM	#66 (permalink)
L0GiCaL1 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Marion, NC USA Posts: 249	http://www.pcwonderinc.com/51pc400mhzdd4.html __________________ Raven Shield Admin Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. - Douglas Adams

02-19-2004, 02:35 PM	#67 (permalink)
en4rcment Join Date: May 2003 Age: 35 Posts: 620	Awesome site....awesome prices!!! Two things: -Will CL 2.5 be good enough for me? -Have you ever purchased from this site? __________________

02-19-2004, 02:52 PM	#68 (permalink)
L0GiCaL1 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Marion, NC USA Posts: 249	#1 Yes #2 Yes __________________ Raven Shield Admin Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. - Douglas Adams

02-19-2004, 02:59 PM	#69 (permalink)
en4rcment Join Date: May 2003 Age: 35 Posts: 620	Thanks Logical!!! Just for my own knowledge. what would you estimate is the performance increases between CL3, 2.5, and 2? __________________

02-19-2004, 06:58 PM	#70 (permalink)
L0GiCaL1 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Marion, NC USA Posts: 249	You are probably looking at 10-15% increase in RAM performance for an overall boost of say 3-5% going from CAS 3 to CAS 2.5. Since I have never installed CAS 2 RAM in any machine I can't tell you about the difference between CAS 2 and CAS 2.5. Those are just estimations because it depends on how you clock the RAM in the BIOS. I'm sure Overlag can give you a really good answer on that since I don't O/C. __________________ Raven Shield Admin Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. - Douglas Adams

02-19-2004, 08:20 PM	#71 (permalink)
Overlag Join Date: May 2003 Location: NE Outer London, UK Age: 26 Posts: 1,540	well, its all like 1% diff, 2.5 is fine, but im always after 2-2-2-5 stuff, hence i dont like the idea of this PC4000 3-4-4-8 stuff, why bother running at 250mhz if your running so high latencies that PC3200 2-2-2-5 would beat it? is it 2.5-3-3-8? the corsair would be worth it IMO. __________________ From Adam Webb

02-20-2004, 02:20 PM	#72 (permalink)
en4rcment Join Date: May 2003 Age: 35 Posts: 620	The site only lists the generic memory as TRUE CL 2.5. http://www.pcwonderinc.com/51pc400mhzdd4.html I also like the Corsair, but I need to get 1 gig of memory for $150-$200. My budget is maxed out. Why would I spend so much more money for a 1% difference? Do you know of any sites that have memory in the 2-2-2-5 specs and are reasonably priced? __________________

02-20-2004, 03:08 PM	#73 (permalink)
Overlag Join Date: May 2003 Location: NE Outer London, UK Age: 26 Posts: 1,540	nope 2.5 is fine its just my personal prefference (allows more overclock 2-2-2-5 stuff) __________________ From Adam Webb

02-20-2004, 05:05 PM	#74 (permalink)
en4rcment Join Date: May 2003 Age: 35 Posts: 620	Hey Overlag, I went to the ASUS website, and they tested their mobo (K8V Deluxe) with a bunch of memory. Just to be safe, I wanted to get a memory brand they had tested with (corsair,kingston, adata, kingmax, etc). Look at this good deal on Kingston PC-3200 512Mb stick CL 2.5 (it's only $89). Newegg price You approve? Also, If I buy the CPU/Mobo bundle from Mwave.com, the cpu comes as an OEM without the stock fan and heatsink. Anyone know where I can get the EXACT fan and heatsink that comes with the retail Athlon64 3200+? The fan is supposed to be very good (and quiet). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sidebar- I just wanted to thank both of you (Overlag and Logical1) for taking the time to help me understand CPU's, mobos, and memory better. I would have been sick to my stomach if I had made a quick impulse buy only to find out later that I had not bought the setup that best suited my needs. You both have been EXTREMELY helpful and I cannot thank you enough! __________________

02-20-2004, 08:22 PM	#75 (permalink)
L0GiCaL1 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Marion, NC USA Posts: 249	En4... get an aftermarket cooler.. you will always get better results and they typcially don't break the bank. Also on MWAVE, if you purchase the motherboard you want you can at the same time select processor and heatsink/fan options. Try this: http://www.mwave.com/mwave/ProdMB-AS...E=Motherboards It is in about the middle of the page. __________________ Raven Shield Admin Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. - Douglas Adams

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