Boomstick

I'm not sure really, but it's worth a shot at least. Have tried the application I linked to in my previous post? The wiki I linked before also has some tools you should be able to use.

Edit: sup Gromit

Edit 2: Goooooooooooooooooooooooooooons

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CingularDuality

Hmmm... I always understood that the forensics guys at the agency I work for were quite able to recover data that was only overwritten once. I'll have to double check with them and then PM you. Are you going to check in here regularly for the next week or so? If not, could you set your profile to email you when someone PMs you, or just PM me your email address?

As you your comparison to the Watergate tapes... "Wiping" something with a strong magnetic field is quite different from simply overwriting something... I've got cassette tapes, for instance, from the 80s, and if I record over them with no microphone input, I'll still faintly hear the original music when I play it again. Same concept with digital recovery: ones and zeros are "drastically" different, but all of the ones aren't the same, and all of the zeros aren't the same. You just need the hardware precise enough to pick up on those differences.

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TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

Gromit

I'll keep checking in. I enjoy a discussion on this topic so I'll stick around until it dies a natural death.
Your forensics guys should tell you it's impossible. If not, then I'd be interested to hear from them directly. If it gets to that point, perhaps them and I can discuss the topic via our agency email addresses so there's a level of formality involved, and not just ****ty usernames on some forum
Would you be willing to tell me (or PM or email) what TYPE of agency they are in? I'm state law enforcement, myself.

The Watergate tapes were not wiped with a strong magnetic field. The secretary recorded silence over 30 seconds of interesting material. Presumably she had better equopment than you did, as the Secret Service obviously can't just hear what was said on them.
You should perhaps bear in mind that data is NOT recorded onto hard drives as a sequence of ones and zeros, or magnetic norths or souths. It is recorded as a stream of flux changes that the drive interprets as a one or a zero. It isn't as simple as people often think.
The problem with the "pick up on those differences" theory is that how do you know what "depth" of previous data you are looking at? If it were possible to see the underlying data, why not the data below that? Or below that? How can you tell that the data you can see is related to the data you saw in the previous section of the disk? Can you see where the problems start to arise.
That, of course, all forgoes the fact that data densities are so great these days that you can't do what is proposed with an electron microscope. You need a human being to perform the operation, and it is so mind-numbingly dull, repetitive, and TINY, that it is impossible.

At the end of the day, however, I rely on the simple procedure that science uses when presented with problems like this. People make a statement that it IS possible, and so have the burden of proof placed upon them. I have yet to find anyone on the planet who has performed this data recovery task. To me, this makes it no different to a belief in Santa Claus - when someone trusses the fat guy up in his house in the North Pole, then I might believe.
Like the Sasquatch, UFOs, and psychic detectives, I'm not here to prove it doesn't exist - people have to prove it DOES. So far, no-one has. And believe me, I've asked around.

CingularDuality

I'll double check with them to make sure I'm not talking out of my gluteus... I'm with DHS ICE and our computer forensics guys spend most of their time breaking encryption and undeleting kiddie porn files...

I guess she must have had better equipment, because you can try what I described and see that it works with any consumer tape recorder... Record something on a tape, then record silence over it, then play it again at high volume. You'll be able to faintly hear what you originally recorded. I'm sure that better equipment would make this type of audio recovery even easier, but the experiment proves that it can be done...
Yes, if the hardware is unable to simply tell that it's reading a "one that used to be a zero" or a "one that used to be a one", then there would be a significant amount of guessing (logic algorithm which would require much computing power...) involved in trying to recover the data.

I fail to see how this matters in the least... If we have HDDs that read and write at these densities that only cost a hundred bucks, why can't we have more precise instruments in laboratories that can read a platter with a much higher degree of accuracy, even if it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars?

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TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

Overlag

your the one that started the provocation

you joined here just to do so didnt you

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CingularDuality

He said he came here only for this discussion...

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TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

Overlag

yeah so he did. Then he told me things i had done, i hadnt really done, or that i was making them up.

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Gromit

The issue here is that you can't automate the process. You need someone to look at the electron micrographs and make determinations. Can you imagine recovering overwritten data on a floppy disk at 1k/hour? It would take something like 9 months to do that if you could handle doing it as a fulltime job. And at the end of the day you are not going to be certain that the data you recovered is accurate, or even close.
Buying a hard drive that can read and write data at these densities is a long way from buying a piece of equipment that can handle looking beyond that data at some underlying detail. I doubt the University of Maryland is short of cash, and if the guy who is at the cutting edge of data recovery science can't do it, it seems unlikely anyone else can.

Let's go back to your original statement, shall we?
"You CAN also pick up data after its been writen over. Ie Finaldata picked up about 25gig of data from a 20gig drive."
This implies that you believe that a simple software solution has the ability to recover overwritten data. No-one will agree with you on that, and I doubt anyone else reading this can see how it could be possible. Nowhere on the FinalData website do they make the claim their software can perform this functionality. Would you care to comment on this at all, perhaps by making it clear to me how you can run a piece of software over a disk and recover overwritten data? Hard drive functionality does not allow for this to happen. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE. Even people who believe overwritten data can be recovered don't believe for a second it can be done with a software solution alone.
Given that initial statement, you're asking me why I think you are talking BS? Perhaps you need to go back to what you said and re-read it.

You asked why I joined here. I thought I made it fairly clear in my opening post, but here it is again. I checked my referrer logs and followed it here. Seeing someone posting erroneous information I endeavoured to show that they were misguided in some way. I've had a couple of people refute my opinion, even though it's backed up with facts and the others just have anecdotal evidence (if any at all) but I still get a few people who spend the time doing some research and come around to my way of thinking.
It amazes me that given most people who are into computers enough to be heavily involved in an online gaming community (especially one touted as "mature") probably have a science background, that they don't approach these topics with objectivity. By "science background" I mean that they see the value of logic, rather than faith alone. You (and others) seem to be taking this overwritten data thing on faith alone, as you've yet to show any evidence refuting my claims beyond anecdotal rubbish.
Like I said, believe what you want to believe. I'm just hoping you'll go away and do some solid research and better yourself. However, I'll not sit idly by and let you pollute the minds of others without some decent evidence backing up your claims.

CingularDuality

Heh... I won't comment on the academic standing of that school, as you might have purchased a degree from there... I know nothing about the guy who is at the cutting edge of data recovery science, either. But I think it's kinda foolish to assume that just because one person can't or doesn't do something that nobody else can do it either.

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TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

Gromit

The thing is, if someone could do it it would be of extreme interest to the people in my field. Considering I am in contact with forensic analysts all over the globe, you'd think that if it were possible someone would have heard about it by now.
At the end of the day, though, it comes down to not ever hearing about anyone who can do it. Loads of people claim it is possible, but with NO proof whatsoever. How is this different from those who claim they can talk to the dead, or read your dog's mind?

_Ender_

OK guys. enough seriously.



I got the items back. I deleted 12 of them and recovered 8, so I am happy.


thanks for all the help guys.

Gromit

Okay, consider me gone. Mods can delete my account if they wish.

Overlag

good work

what software did you use? im not sure whats good in 2005 it was about 1999 i did it lol

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