Twisted_Firestarter

No. The Vista DirectSound emulation sends mixed audio content to the standard OS audio path and offers no “direct” path to hardware at all. Since the whole point of DirectSound acceleration is to allow hardware to process unmixed audio content, DirectSound cannot be accelerated in this audio model. In other words, directsound apps that use a sound card will push audio processing onto the CPU, just as the onboard audio card does. The primary reason for using a sound card is to eliminate the CPU cycles associated with onboard sound and you no longer get that benefit with Vista.

Although OpenAL will address some of these issues, it will not address all of them. The Generic Hardware device will no longer be available, as it requires the use of hardware DirectSound 3D Buffers. Instead, this device will fallback to using the Generic Software device.

Also, it remains to be seen if Creative will even fully support OpenAL. Every official post I have seen from them always uses the phrase "may support OpenAL". And finally, because of the changes to the audio layer, onboard sound cards have access to higher quality and more complex sound processing than they had previously, so there will be less of a distinction of sound quality between onboard audio and external audio cards.

Hey, I've been a huge fan of audio cards since they first became available. I still have a very early edition 8-bit SoundBlaster sitting in a box. It just seems like there is a less persuasive argument for wanting one under Vista. Oh, and all this comes from someone who is running Vista and has a X-Fi card installed.

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Twisted Firestarter
a.k.a |TG| Harkonian

Hambergler

Thanks for the reply.
Wow M$ continues to disappoint w/vista. How about EAX?

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Gambit7

It's not really disappointing, it's just sensible engineering. With the majority of systems FINALLY going parallel-processing (i.e. dual core), having a need for an expensive 3rd party sound card is kind of dumb unless you're doing pro. audio work.

People tend to forget that the majority of the time they're still only using half their CPU, the other of which will run your native sound support on your mobo (hence the reason I didnt buy an audio card this build). I'm still using nearly all 3.4GHz of one core on a non multi-threaded game. And on game's like SupCom, which does support some multi-threading, it's a moot point because I'm pushing well over 6Ghz. So moaning about a few lost MHz on today's super CPUs is a bit like swimming and crying about the rain

Heck, my on-board sound card is better then my old SBAudigy. It can upmix to a head unit to DTS, which audigy could not do (DTS is better than Dolby surround). It also is 7.1 capable, and audigy was only 5.1. The EAX is still an option as well. The drivers are a lot better (SB drivers SUCK IMO) So why spend $100+ on a sound card?

If you really want good sound.. go and buy a nice home-theatre system to hook your PC up to, or some nice Klipsch speakers. If you need pro-audio, buy a 3rd party midi-interface and a mixing board. hehe

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=Sarc=

Depending on the onboard sound, it can be really horrible compared to other sound cards. I've done comparisons with the Realtek onboard sound on my Gigabyte DS3 and it's not nearly as good as my old Game TheaterXP or my X-Fi. The sound isn't as full despite any fancy options it may have.

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JO Guides & Tutorials
Team Element - It's who you game with.

Gambit7

This is true. Some of those on-board sound mobos suck real hard. Personally, my sound is mediocre because of my speakers (cheesy creative 5.1 from 6 years go). Buying a sound card would be a waste w/o a decent powered speaker system. This is why I dont advocate people spending stupid amounts of money on soundcards when they dont have any way to take advantage. X-Fi with $20 Antec 2.1???

Even buying an expensive klipsch setup is a bit much as you can get pretty good home-theatre systems including head units for the same money if not less that can decode dts/dolby and take inputs from other audio sources, all the while amping way higher. And if your mobo comes with spdif and/or opti. outputs there's another reason not to buy a sound card.

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=Sarc=

There are a lot of neat effects that you can get from EAX HD. You only get that with Creative cards.

I can also tell the quality difference with Zalman 5.1 headphones and they cost $50. It doesn't really take awesome speakers to tell the quality difference with onboard and dedicated sound cards.

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JO Guides & Tutorials
Team Element - It's who you game with.

loyalguard

I'd though I'd give a little, well big, update. All my parts arrived yesterday and despite constant harassment by Mrs. Guard my custom rig is up and running.

As a quick reminder, here is the final config:

Case: Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
PSU: Antec True Power Trio TP3-650 ATX12V 650W Power Supply with Three 12V Rails - Retail
MOBO: ASUS P5N-E SLI LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 650i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6600 - Retail
RAM: CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X2048-6400 - Retail
GPU: EVGA 320-P2-N811-AR GeForce 8800GTS 320MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Video Card -
HDD: Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KSRTL 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - Retail
Optical: LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner With 12X DVD-RAM Write Black SATA Model LH-20A1S -
OS: Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition with SP2 - Retail

This was an extremely rewarding, but exhausting process. I'd thought I'd share some of my lessons learned with the hardware I chose, noob builder mistakes, and other comments.

I love my case, but it is not for first time builders. There are virtually no cable management options. No pathways behind the mobo tray, no places to tuck cables out of the way. Also, the removable harddrive bays our nice but in order to screw the drives in you have to work through these deep narrow slots that tend to make it easy to drop a screw and have to shake it loose to start again. The nice features are the huge 200mm fan and three other 120mm fans...awesome airflow. Also, puttng the PSU mount on the bottom of the case instead of the top does help a little with the cables.

My PSU is awesome. The power cables come pre-sleeved so everything is nice and tight, especially the main 24-pin mobo power cable. There is enough room for all the power cables to reach all the connectors on the mobo without stretching over the mobo except the four pin cable. I will eventually buy an extender for it. Despite the sleeving, my cables are a mess. I will try to clean them up this weekend to improve airflow and make it neater.

The 8000GTS 320mb is awesome! I've never run so good. I'll try some benchmarking this weekend.

I really thought I screwed up a couple of times on the install. It took about 10 tries to get all the stupid metal tabs on the I/O shield folded out of the way before I could mount the mobo. Although it looked unharmed, I thought I had scraped some of the soldered leads on the bottom of the mobo while trying to adjust.

The HSF was a nightmare, I couldn't get one of the legs to snap in tight, it kept popping out. I ended up re-seating it twice while watching my mobo strain...very stressfull (for me and the board). The mobo manual said install the mobo first, Intel said to install the mobo first, but, in the future I think I will leave the mobo out of the case when installing the CPU and HSF and install the mobo after...any thoughts?

So after three hours of install time (not including prep and manual reading time - about another 4 hours in advance) it POSTed on first boot...all my hardware works, and my CPU runs at 33C idle (I haven't stressed it yet - and I think I can get idle temp down with some fan-speed adjustments, ventilation, and better wire management). It took about 3-hours to get the HD formatted, XP installed, and other basic apps in place.

So to all of you who encouraged me to build my own instead of buying pre-built...I curse you and thank you at the same time! I sweated every step of the way but my confidence is now up and my tech knowledge has increased 100-fold throughout this whole experience and it felt pretty good sitting there at 2:00 am with the lights off admiring my build while bathed in blue LED light!

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|TG| LoyalGuard

Grunt 70

oh man...ya...on the 4 builds I've done I installed cpu, heatsink and RAM first. I wish I had spelled that out for you.

Proudly go forth and frag frag frag...good job Loyal. Next one will be easier

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|TG-22nd|Grunt



"When force is necessary, it must be applied boldly, decisively, and completely. But one must know the limitations of force; one must know when to blend force with maneuver" - Leon Trotsky

jonan_

Congradulations! I feels good completing your first build. It is something to be proud of.

UnDeaD77

Amen to that.

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loyalguard

No worries, Grunt...I'll save some of my first frag for you In several online DIY guides it said to leave the board out while installing CPU/HSF/RAM but I'd figure I'd do it buy the book the first time since if there was a problem and I had to RMA they couldn't claim I didn't follow instructions. Now I know.

One of the nice things about this rig is that it is all SATA. One Optical Drive and two HDDs (I installed 160GB Seagate from my old machine as well). It is soooo much easier than IDE (plus no annoying flat ribbon cables!). Is there any advantage to IDE drives? It would be nice to gain back that realestate on MOBOs for better connector placement. The floppy controller too, when is that going away!

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|TG| LoyalGuard

Hambergler

Congrats! A proud poppa, Sends a tear from my eye. sniff sniff

BTW
33 idle on a 6600 is very good. I idle at 42 with the 6600.

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Gambit7

I idle at even less than 33 on my 6600, BUT I'm using a huge cooler. You really shouldnt be idling at 42 on a stock setup, heck... even if you OC you shouldnt. Something must be wrong there. Maybe not enough flow or your thermal compound is borked.


Loyal; grats on the build man... and it's not an expensive rig either but will perform admirably. You should be able to OC that e6600 to 3.2GHz without a problem either, on stock cooling. You'll notice maybe a 2-4C difference and probably wont have to even raise the voltage... very easy to do assuming that mobo behaves like the 32N.

My only gripe is that you didnt go Vista, as for new builds is the smart thing to do so you dont have to drop another $100 down the road for the new OS (which will be what you need for DX10). I also HOPE you got the "system builders" version of XP as it's MUCH cheaper then the retail version.

Anyways, cheers! And dont stay up too late messing with that thing like I do. When's the last time I went to bed before 4am??? hmmmm

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jonan_

My roomate and I both have 6600's and our idle is about 42. That is not a bad number at all.

Gambit7

what voltage are you running?? are you OCing a lot? that just doesnt sound right to me... That's like over 10C difference. I just checked my speedfan and I'm at 30C idle w/o the cooler fan even running. Maybe it's the case... I'm using the Antec 900 also, which has that 120 fan right next to the cpu as well as that huge 240 just above it.

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