"Serious" Problems with Core 2 Duos?

Acreo Aeneas · 09-13-2007, 03:48 AM

http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=118296441702631

Found that while forum reading on one of the many game/tech related websites I visit weekly. I haven't read it in detail or bothered to do any background research of my own to confirm the details, so I'm assuming there is some truth to it (even though I don't understand the AI90 and MMU stuff).

Do these "serious" problems with the C2D/C2Q line have a big impact on software currently out or coming out (games especially)? And does anyone else know more about this? One more curious question, was that recent "microcode" fix released by Microsoft attempting to fix/seal these "mistakes"?

=Sarc= · 09-13-2007, 08:41 AM

Yada yada yada, I already bought one in my home machine and I found out that my work machine uses a Core 2 Duo as well.

There's not much I can do about it now. I don't want to hear about the problems unless there are fixes or procedures I should take to prevent problems. It's unnecessary worry and it's not my job.

So far, I haven't felt any serious reprecussions of having a Core 2 Duo. Games run great and don't seem to crash any more than on my old PC. Although, I have the most accident prone combination of Vista, X-Fi, Core 2. All I know is it's a computer and it works the way I expect at the moment.

Polska · 09-13-2007, 10:01 AM

The only problem I have had since building it 3 weeks ago is getting myself away from my computer

. Ill look into the problem when I notice one :/.

**Dick Blonov** · 09-13-2007, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by =Sarc=

Yada yada yada,

I second the motion. Some people really like doomsday scenarios and post half the story, just to start a debate it seems. THE LIST is available from Intel in their specification update document. Similar lists are available for chipsets, memory, you name it.

From the document (highlights are mine):

«Notice: The Intel® Core2 Extreme and Intel® Core2 Duo desktop processor may contain design defects or errors known as errata which may cause the product to deviate from published specifications. Current characterized errata are documented in this Specification Update.»

Intel has always issued these spec updates (and made them available to the public). Other manufacturers might not be as transparent. Complex chip ? More errata. Does it matter ? Not if your PC works. And honestly, not many can read these spec updates and fully understand what they mean.

Happy gaming

DB

Acreo Aeneas · 09-13-2007, 10:42 AM

Ah. Okay, so it is just people trying to hurt the reputation of the chip by making a bigger deal out of a usual occurance. Well, glad Dick cleared that up.

Thanks Dick!

**Dick Blonov** · 09-13-2007, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acreo Aeneas

Ah. Okay, so it is just people trying to hurt the reputation of the chip by making a bigger deal out of a usual occurance.

That's what I think. Just for fun, look at the list for the 90nm Pentium 4's

DB

Acreo Aeneas · 09-13-2007, 01:29 PM

Heh, I'm not surprised. I don't think my Pentium D is much better (it's too hot).

**Shiner** · 09-13-2007, 05:39 PM

There was that one chip (pentium pro????) that miscalculated to such an extent they had to recall them, but other than that most chips carry 100s of errata and users typically don't notice.

**Dick Blonov** · 09-13-2007, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiner

There was that one chip (pentium pro????) that miscalculated to such an extent they had to recall them, but other than that most chips carry 100s of errata and users typically don't notice.

You're right. The infamous floating point divide instruction bug.

Interesting story!

DB

**draeh** · 09-13-2007, 08:31 PM

All chips have these kinds of errata. I write embedded software for a living, and I can tell you that intel's C2D errata list is quite light compared to some. Notice how INTEL is the originator of the findings and as of yet these flaws have not been found in the wild.

When errors in silicon like this are found, software writers and tool vendors (primarily compiler vendors) make patches to ensure the sequence of events that precipitate sed errors does not happen.

And yes, the microcode update from Microsoft is one such attempt of a software maker devising a plan to trap these errors and handle them as they come up... if they ever do.

Acreo Aeneas · 09-13-2007, 10:03 PM

I'm glad the microcode fix was released then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by draeh

Notice how INTEL is the originator of the findings and as of yet these flaws have not been found in the wild.

So the AMD, Cyrix, and VIA CPUs don't have these flaws? Or are they present but no one bothers to look for them?

**Dick Blonov** · 09-13-2007, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acreo Aeneas

I'm glad the microcode fix was released then.

So the AMD, Cyrix, and VIA CPUs don't have these flaws? Or are they present but no one bothers to look for them?

Lookie here!

I guess people like to pick on Intel

DB

Acreo Aeneas · 09-14-2007, 06:40 PM

:O AMD too has errata. That is interesting.

**-=DW=-Hitman** · 09-14-2007, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acreo Aeneas

:O AMD too has errata. That is interesting.

i never got problems with my amd x2 dualcore 4800 , for two years almost !

Acreo Aeneas · 09-20-2007, 06:32 PM

Oh no, I didn't mean AMD had problems with their chips (which was the implied answer to the question of this thread). It seems most CPU errata doesn't affect the end user much due to the the workarounds and such employed by software programmers and designers.

09-13-2007, 03:48 AM	#1 (permalink)
Acreo Aeneas Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: DePaul University (Chicago) Age: 22 Posts: 4,547	"Serious" Problems with Core 2 Duos? http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=118296441702631 Found that while forum reading on one of the many game/tech related websites I visit weekly. I haven't read it in detail or bothered to do any background research of my own to confirm the details, so I'm assuming there is some truth to it (even though I don't understand the AI90 and MMU stuff). Do these "serious" problems with the C2D/C2Q line have a big impact on software currently out or coming out (games especially)? And does anyone else know more about this? One more curious question, was that recent "microcode" fix released by Microsoft attempting to fix/seal these "mistakes"? __________________ Acreo_Aeneas Former 9th MID Member Current Obsessions: Netbooks and other low-cost, small, and portable PCs.

09-13-2007, 08:41 AM	#2 (permalink)
=Sarc= Join Date: May 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 4,600	Re: "Serious" Problems with Core 2 Duos? Yada yada yada, I already bought one in my home machine and I found out that my work machine uses a Core 2 Duo as well. There's not much I can do about it now. I don't want to hear about the problems unless there are fixes or procedures I should take to prevent problems. It's unnecessary worry and it's not my job. So far, I haven't felt any serious reprecussions of having a Core 2 Duo. Games run great and don't seem to crash any more than on my old PC. Although, I have the most accident prone combination of Vista, X-Fi, Core 2. All I know is it's a computer and it works the way I expect at the moment. __________________ JO Guides & Tutorials Team Element - It's who you game with.

09-13-2007, 10:01 AM	#3 (permalink)
Polska Join Date: May 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 26 Posts: 715	Re: "Serious" Problems with Core 2 Duos? The only problem I have had since building it 3 weeks ago is getting myself away from my computer . Ill look into the problem when I notice one :/. __________________ I love gaming, mmmmmmmm

09-13-2007, 10:42 AM	#5 (permalink)
Acreo Aeneas Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: DePaul University (Chicago) Age: 22 Posts: 4,547	Re: "Serious" Problems with Core 2 Duos? Ah. Okay, so it is just people trying to hurt the reputation of the chip by making a bigger deal out of a usual occurance. Well, glad Dick cleared that up. Thanks Dick! __________________ Acreo_Aeneas Former 9th MID Member Current Obsessions: Netbooks and other low-cost, small, and portable PCs.

09-13-2007, 01:29 PM	#7 (permalink)
Acreo Aeneas Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: DePaul University (Chicago) Age: 22 Posts: 4,547	Re: "Serious" Problems with Core 2 Duos? Heh, I'm not surprised. I don't think my Pentium D is much better (it's too hot). __________________ Acreo_Aeneas Former 9th MID Member Current Obsessions: Netbooks and other low-cost, small, and portable PCs.

09-13-2007, 05:39 PM	#8 (permalink)
Shiner Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dallas, TX Age: 30 Posts: 2,256	Re: "Serious" Problems with Core 2 Duos? There was that one chip (pentium pro????) that miscalculated to such an extent they had to recall them, but other than that most chips carry 100s of errata and users typically don't notice. __________________

09-13-2007, 08:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
draeh Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Austintown, Ohio Age: 36 Posts: 2,702	Re: "Serious" Problems with Core 2 Duos? All chips have these kinds of errata. I write embedded software for a living, and I can tell you that intel's C2D errata list is quite light compared to some. Notice how INTEL is the originator of the findings and as of yet these flaws have not been found in the wild. When errors in silicon like this are found, software writers and tool vendors (primarily compiler vendors) make patches to ensure the sequence of events that precipitate sed errors does not happen. And yes, the microcode update from Microsoft is one such attempt of a software maker devising a plan to trap these errors and handle them as they come up... if they ever do. __________________ Dirtboy's 2142 Evolution - Improving Situational Awareness! My Screenies - My Webpage - Xfire Submit a Nomination! - Nomination Guidelines - Awards List

09-14-2007, 06:40 PM	#13 (permalink)
Acreo Aeneas Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: DePaul University (Chicago) Age: 22 Posts: 4,547	Re: "Serious" Problems with Core 2 Duos? :O AMD too has errata. That is interesting. __________________ Acreo_Aeneas Former 9th MID Member Current Obsessions: Netbooks and other low-cost, small, and portable PCs.

09-20-2007, 06:32 PM	#15 (permalink)
Acreo Aeneas Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: DePaul University (Chicago) Age: 22 Posts: 4,547	Re: "Serious" Problems with Core 2 Duos? Oh no, I didn't mean AMD had problems with their chips (which was the implied answer to the question of this thread). It seems most CPU errata doesn't affect the end user much due to the the workarounds and such employed by software programmers and designers. __________________ Acreo_Aeneas Former 9th MID Member Current Obsessions: Netbooks and other low-cost, small, and portable PCs.

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