Question on Defense

**Aruncado** · 03-27-2008, 07:32 PM

Alrighty, I am feeling like I am getting kind of established and had a question about defense for my capital and my colony.

Capital: Pseudopolis [30:77]
Warehouse Level 4
Town Wall Level 4
5 Phalanx
2 Swordsmen
3 Ballista Ships
2 Ram-Ships

Colony: Krull [30:77] <-- Next island over
Warehouse Level 2 (Upgrading soon but doing the wall right now)
Town Wall Level 3 (Upgrading to 4 right now)
3 Phalanx
2 Ballista Ships

I am mainly keeping all my goods at my capital since they are close enough to ship back and forth in 40m. It has a higher warehouse and slightly more protection. Meanwhile, I am doing my best to keep at or under the "safe" limits of my warehouse on my colony.

My question is this: Are these defenses good enough to stop the average pillager and deter at least a decent number of people? Will I be safe from most but a serious raider or alliance war? Or should I beef up my defenses more?

Thanks in advance for all the help and advice!

Edit: In the for what its worth category I am also researching culinary so I can make cooks. Are they worth it? How exactly do they help your troops?

Atomic Dog · 03-27-2008, 07:37 PM

The short answer is, no. You are still incredibly weak. I keep a minimum of 20 Phalanx as a defensive army. And that's not even beginning to touch on my attacking force...

It may stop a low lvl pillager who hasn't established himself yet, but it won't stop a serious pirate like myself.

Right now the biggest obstacle you are encountering is how to afford an army suitable enough to defend your wealth...and really there's not much you can do to get around that one. You just kind of cross your fingers and hope no dastardly savage singles you out for a chain pillage. Just ask the poor sods around me...it's not much fun. xD

EDIT: And yes, cooks are definitely worth it. They keep your troops fighting longer and give them a stamina boost. Definitely useful in a prolonged attack.

**Aruncado** · 03-27-2008, 07:44 PM

Hrmmm.... looks like I need to get more sulfur then. I have a fairly regular wood supply and am willing to shift around scientists, miners, and wood choppers in order to afford defensive upkeep. I worked hard for my stuff and would prefer that no one come in and take it. Thanks for the advice.

**machowner** · 03-27-2008, 07:46 PM

I would say yes and no. If played right your okay. You know, destroy your port, ship as many goods out as you can. If someone spends the money to pillage you and gets very little in return, they probably will just more on. I would anyway.

ikonic · 03-27-2008, 07:53 PM

If you can play the market and sell your surplus stockpile, you can still come ahead on your income despite having a negative budget.

For example, I am consistently at -300 to -1000 per hour, but i can make all that back by buying low (below 15g) and reselling (or selling surplus) between 25g-30g.

**Aruncado** · 03-27-2008, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atomic Dog

EDIT: And yes, cooks are definitely worth it. They keep your troops fighting longer and give them a stamina boost. Definitely useful in a prolonged attack.

Question about this (and doctors to for that matter). What ratio should you have of cooks/doctors to troops? 1 cook and 2 doctors per 10 fighting men? Or do you only get benefit from the first one?

Atomic Dog · 03-27-2008, 08:18 PM

I'm not exactly sure on that one. I keep 2 cooks total. Still haven't researched Anatomy. But I always send 1 cook with my attacking force and keep 1 cook back at home for defense (just in case).

RedTalon · 03-27-2008, 08:32 PM

http://board.ikariam.org/thread.php?threadid=18995

I have not taken the time to study the data there, or read the whole thread...but that will probably give you better incite into how the two work.

**Aruncado** · 04-01-2008, 03:30 PM

Alright, I'm reviving this thread to get an opinion on the improved defenses.

I now have a lvl 6 wall (upgrading to 7 now)
20 Phalanx (with the bronze upgrades on offense and defense)
10 swordsmen
2 cooks
(and have about 10 hours left on researching doctors)
10 Ballista ships
5 ram-ships

Am I getting into the neighborhood of "comfortable"?

**El_Gringo_Grande** · 04-01-2008, 03:37 PM

Nah, I just got demolished by a guy on my island and I had 25 phalanx with a level 8 wall and 5 ballista and 5 ram. My phalanx are armed with iron upgrades.

If the attacker is coming over land then they loot (this is the .2 version) without regards to your ships.

He did loose about 20 spears and 40 swordsman. But he still got a bunch of good stuff. It really depends on your neighbors.

**El_Gringo_Grande** · 04-01-2008, 03:47 PM

Oh, and they where able to attack and loot without any siege, again in the .2 version.

**Tarenth** · 04-01-2008, 04:16 PM

1) Workshop upgrades currently don't do anything. It doesn't matter if you have bronze, iron, or steel spears on your phalanx because currently they'll be just as good as one without until they implement upgrades.

2) What is your hideout and counter espionage force looking like? If they aren't sending siege units to breach your walls then its possible you have a spy infestation opening gates for them. Each spy in your town has X% to open a gate and if they can get at least 1 gate open then it'll still be an uphill battle but they won't need siege units.

On a side note: I'm 'comfortable' with 3 phalanxes and 2 ballista ships in the harbor since I have relatively good relations with the people around me. I also have a counter espionage team of at least 3 spies at home at all time so I don't have to worry about infiltration much.

**El_Gringo_Grande** · 04-01-2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarenth

1) Workshop upgrades currently don't do anything. It doesn't matter if you have bronze, iron, or steel spears on your phalanx because currently they'll be just as good as one without until they implement upgrades.

2) What is your hideout and counter espionage force looking like? If they aren't sending siege units to breach your walls then its possible you have a spy infestation opening gates for them. Each spy in your town has X% to open a gate and if they can get at least 1 gate open then it'll still be an uphill battle but they won't need siege units.

On a side note: I'm 'comfortable' with 3 phalanxes and 2 ballista ships in the harbor since I have relatively good relations with the people around me. I also have a counter espionage team of at least 3 spies at home at all time so I don't have to worry about infiltration much.

I have 5 of my own spies in the town being attacked and it is a level 10 town.

I really don't think he has any spies because he first sent a single slinger to, I guess, check out my forces.

Plus I just saw this "Attacking, wall breaking units have breached the defender�xB4;s town wall at 1 points." Of course it doesn't show any siege weapons for the attacker, just swords. And that is on the second round.

hmmm, I don't know.

Are you sure the about the upgrades not working?

My defensive for 1 phalanx was 85.3. Wall added 64% so that is 40 + (40*.64) = 65.6 But if I add the + 20 for iron shield 60 + (40*.64) = 85.6. Pretty close. BUt I have noticed that they can't round anyway.

So I think that the upgrades do work, at least in .2

**Tarenth** · 04-01-2008, 11:34 PM

Phalanx have 'resistance' which increases defense by 30% when attacked. That means they naturally have a base defense of 52 when attacked and your walls added 64% to 84.24.

Workshop upgrades are a confirmed bug and are still being worked on.

**El_Gringo_Grande** · 04-01-2008, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarenth

Phalanx have 'resistance' which increases defense by 30% when attacked. That means they naturally have a base defense of 52 when attacked and your walls added 64% to 84.24.

Workshop upgrades are a confirmed bug and are still being worked on.

Thanks for the clarification. Their math still sucks. 84.24 <> 85.3

03-27-2008, 07:32 PM	#1 (permalink)
Aruncado Join Date: May 2007 Location: Florida Panhandle Age: 24 Posts: 722	Question on Defense Alrighty, I am feeling like I am getting kind of established and had a question about defense for my capital and my colony. Capital: Pseudopolis [30:77] Warehouse Level 4 Town Wall Level 4 5 Phalanx 2 Swordsmen 3 Ballista Ships 2 Ram-Ships Colony: Krull [30:77] <-- Next island over Warehouse Level 2 (Upgrading soon but doing the wall right now) Town Wall Level 3 (Upgrading to 4 right now) 3 Phalanx 2 Ballista Ships I am mainly keeping all my goods at my capital since they are close enough to ship back and forth in 40m. It has a higher warehouse and slightly more protection. Meanwhile, I am doing my best to keep at or under the "safe" limits of my warehouse on my colony. My question is this: Are these defenses good enough to stop the average pillager and deter at least a decent number of people? Will I be safe from most but a serious raider or alliance war? Or should I beef up my defenses more? Thanks in advance for all the help and advice! Edit: In the for what its worth category I am also researching culinary so I can make cooks. Are they worth it? How exactly do they help your troops? __________________ Become an alumni \| TGU Instructor \| Attend TGU today! "You know you play to much 2142 when you think Vitamin Water's "Revive" should have a picture of a medic crouched with the shock paddles out and on the back of the bottle a story about Aruncado...." -Rakkasan21 ....

03-27-2008, 07:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
Atomic Dog Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 31 Posts: 3,899	Re: Question on Defense The short answer is, no. You are still incredibly weak. I keep a minimum of 20 Phalanx as a defensive army. And that's not even beginning to touch on my attacking force... It may stop a low lvl pillager who hasn't established himself yet, but it won't stop a serious pirate like myself. Right now the biggest obstacle you are encountering is how to afford an army suitable enough to defend your wealth...and really there's not much you can do to get around that one. You just kind of cross your fingers and hope no dastardly savage singles you out for a chain pillage. Just ask the poor sods around me...it's not much fun. xD EDIT: And yes, cooks are definitely worth it. They keep your troops fighting longer and give them a stamina boost. Definitely useful in a prolonged attack. __________________ \| ArmA SOPs \| PCS SOPs \| TG Primer \| 4th Wiki \| Ikariam Info: Mothership \| Parliament \| Chocolate City \| Saint George

03-27-2008, 07:44 PM	#3 (permalink)
Aruncado Join Date: May 2007 Location: Florida Panhandle Age: 24 Posts: 722	Re: Question on Defense Hrmmm.... looks like I need to get more sulfur then. I have a fairly regular wood supply and am willing to shift around scientists, miners, and wood choppers in order to afford defensive upkeep. I worked hard for my stuff and would prefer that no one come in and take it. Thanks for the advice. __________________ Become an alumni \| TGU Instructor \| Attend TGU today! "You know you play to much 2142 when you think Vitamin Water's "Revive" should have a picture of a medic crouched with the shock paddles out and on the back of the bottle a story about Aruncado...." -Rakkasan21 ....

03-27-2008, 07:46 PM	#4 (permalink)
machowner Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: New Tazewell, TN Posts: 2,768	Re: Question on Defense I would say yes and no. If played right your okay. You know, destroy your port, ship as many goods out as you can. If someone spends the money to pillage you and gets very little in return, they probably will just more on. I would anyway. __________________ \|New to TG? Start here\|*\|Become a Supporting Member\| "Remember to pillage BEFORE you burn!"

03-27-2008, 07:53 PM	#5 (permalink)
ikonic Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Michigan Age: 22 Posts: 1,326	Re: Question on Defense If you can play the market and sell your surplus stockpile, you can still come ahead on your income despite having a negative budget. For example, I am consistently at -300 to -1000 per hour, but i can make all that back by buying low (below 15g) and reselling (or selling surplus) between 25g-30g. __________________

03-27-2008, 08:18 PM	#7 (permalink)
Atomic Dog Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 31 Posts: 3,899	Re: Question on Defense I'm not exactly sure on that one. I keep 2 cooks total. Still haven't researched Anatomy. But I always send 1 cook with my attacking force and keep 1 cook back at home for defense (just in case). __________________ \| ArmA SOPs \| PCS SOPs \| TG Primer \| 4th Wiki \| Ikariam Info: Mothership \| Parliament \| Chocolate City \| Saint George

03-27-2008, 08:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
RedTalon Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 514	Re: Question on Defense http://board.ikariam.org/thread.php?threadid=18995 I have not taken the time to study the data there, or read the whole thread...but that will probably give you better incite into how the two work.

04-01-2008, 03:30 PM	#9 (permalink)
Aruncado Join Date: May 2007 Location: Florida Panhandle Age: 24 Posts: 722	Re: Question on Defense Alright, I'm reviving this thread to get an opinion on the improved defenses. I now have a lvl 6 wall (upgrading to 7 now) 20 Phalanx (with the bronze upgrades on offense and defense) 10 swordsmen 2 cooks (and have about 10 hours left on researching doctors) 10 Ballista ships 5 ram-ships Am I getting into the neighborhood of "comfortable"? __________________ Become an alumni \| TGU Instructor \| Attend TGU today! "You know you play to much 2142 when you think Vitamin Water's "Revive" should have a picture of a medic crouched with the shock paddles out and on the back of the bottle a story about Aruncado...." -Rakkasan21 ....

04-01-2008, 03:37 PM	#10 (permalink)
El_Gringo_Grande Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: OKIE HOMY Age: 39 Posts: 2,124	Re: Question on Defense Nah, I just got demolished by a guy on my island and I had 25 phalanx with a level 8 wall and 5 ballista and 5 ram. My phalanx are armed with iron upgrades. If the attacker is coming over land then they loot (this is the .2 version) without regards to your ships. He did loose about 20 spears and 40 swordsman. But he still got a bunch of good stuff. It really depends on your neighbors. __________________ Sen. John McCain (AZ) For President '08 --- I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host. - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette

04-01-2008, 03:47 PM	#11 (permalink)
El_Gringo_Grande Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: OKIE HOMY Age: 39 Posts: 2,124	Re: Question on Defense Oh, and they where able to attack and loot without any siege, again in the .2 version. __________________ Sen. John McCain (AZ) For President '08 --- I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host. - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette

04-01-2008, 04:16 PM	#12 (permalink)
Tarenth Join Date: May 2006 Location: California Posts: 2,172	Re: Question on Defense 1) Workshop upgrades currently don't do anything. It doesn't matter if you have bronze, iron, or steel spears on your phalanx because currently they'll be just as good as one without until they implement upgrades. 2) What is your hideout and counter espionage force looking like? If they aren't sending siege units to breach your walls then its possible you have a spy infestation opening gates for them. Each spy in your town has X% to open a gate and if they can get at least 1 gate open then it'll still be an uphill battle but they won't need siege units. On a side note: I'm 'comfortable' with 3 phalanxes and 2 ballista ships in the harbor since I have relatively good relations with the people around me. I also have a counter espionage team of at least 3 spies at home at all time so I don't have to worry about infiltration much. __________________ My sanity is not in question... It was a confirmed casualty some time ago. \|TG\|Tarenth Battlefield 2142 Mirra World of Warcraft Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.

04-01-2008, 11:34 PM	#14 (permalink)
Tarenth Join Date: May 2006 Location: California Posts: 2,172	Re: Question on Defense Phalanx have 'resistance' which increases defense by 30% when attacked. That means they naturally have a base defense of 52 when attacked and your walls added 64% to 84.24. Workshop upgrades are a confirmed bug and are still being worked on. __________________ My sanity is not in question... It was a confirmed casualty some time ago. \|TG\|Tarenth Battlefield 2142 Mirra World of Warcraft Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.

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