CingularDuality

I don't think I've seen gameplay this bad from TG members since CS was the number one game here.

Multiple TKs one right after the other (this affected me personally, although I saw it happen a number of other occasions as well...)

Surrounding the pubbies uncapturable spawn and shooting fish in a barrel.

Outnumbering them and not switching teams (this game ruins this for us, as there's no way to easily switch teams).

I'm not posting this just to complain, I'm posting this as a reminder that just because we have a new game, that doesn't mean that TG rules go out the window. I hope to not see this again in any game here at TG.

__________________

Become a supporting member! -- Shop at the Tactical Market!

Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage."
TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

en4rcment

I understand your anger Cing...

I came in after the TK's (heard people complaining as my game was loading up). From what I heard, it seems as though they were all accidental. That custom map has great spotting ranges, but the demo doesn't show tags until friendlies are closer. I shot at helo's alot, only to see a tag appear as they approached. It's a bug which has been fixed (I've heard) in the retail version. I usually use my sniper scope to help identify long distance targets. When it zooms in, the tags show up...

Regarding surrounding the final base. I had no idea how Team Deathmatch worked (I never played it more than a few minutes). I was part of the surrounding crew. By the time it was announced that we couldn't capture the final base we were involved in HEAVY firefights. It was almost impossible to withdrawl without getting killed. But the overall effect was us getting stupid cheesy spawn kills (something I hate with a passion).

I do not think anybody here enjoys wacking a bunch of helpless pubbies at their spawn. I knew the majority of people playing on the server tonight, and most of them are honorable, upstanding, TG members.

It may have been better handled expressing your outrage on TS (I think you did) and then STAYING in the server. Once we knew the full rules, and the cheesiness of trying to surround the final base camp, NO ONE did it again. It was not discussed, it was simply NOT DONE.

All of us joined TG because we feel the same about gaming. We all want realistic, high level, tactical gameplay. When an honest mistake is made, a gentle reminder goes a long way with this community.

A reminder should be given to all players before Team Deathmatch NOT to go near the final enemy base (for those that may not be familiar with the gametype).

Sorry we dissappointed you tonight Cing, but I'm pretty sure it was a misunderstanding for most of the players...


---------------------------------------------------

__________________

CingularDuality

I know that reality is probably somewhere in between what you just said, and what I'm about to say, but I want to let everyone know that I'm not mad at anyone nor will I hold a grudge. This is just a reminder that sometimes it actually takes effort to play games the TG style.

I know the TKs were accidental, but I was killed three times in a row by someone on my own team within the span of less than three minutes. After the second time, I rudely asked this person WTF was he doing? He then shot me down with a stinger immediately after that. I say turn tags off completely. If you aren't sure of your target, don't shoot. It's that simple. TKs (friendly fire) happen in real life just like in games (although they're a bit more permanent). Bright green tags do NOT show up in real life. If you shoot someone twice in a row, perhaps you should take special care to change the way you're choosing targets...

The whole spawn camping thing was explained several times before I left. And once Apophis mentioned the cheesiness over TS, people continued to assault their uncapturable spawn. I jumped in a blackhawk and the pilot took me directly there. That's when I left. Look these are games. Nobody here cares about their personal score as much as they care about having a good time and working as a team, right? Then when you find out that you are seriously violating the spirit of TacticalGamer you should correct yourself. Even if this means you die and have to wait two whole seconds to respawn!!! I didn't think anyone here liked shooting fish in a barrel, either, but tonight I saw a half dozen people doing exactly that. I felt guilty because I jumped in an APC near their base and killed someone in their base. I was just lighting up the helos as they took off, but someone finally spotted me and I killed him in his base. This was quite a bit before our team surrounded them, but I still felt bad...

I wasn't going to leave so suddenly, but I got a phone call and had to. My parting words were for effect. Nobody seemed to care about the cheesy spawn camping before I left, so maybe my leaving helped change people's minds? I don't know. At any rate, I'm not mad, just venting... I'm sure the games were great for the rest of the evening. I had to go to work for a bit... Not fun...

Anyway, I'm babbling. Don't take this thread too seriously. Just because I'm disappointed with something doesn't mean that you all should feel bad or anything. It was just a few little things that added up and really got under my skin. I was thinking about deleting this thread, because I don't really know how to talk about this without being so blunt and descriptive. But I'll leave it and just keep saying that it's not that big of a deal (as long as we all strive to avoid it from now on...).

__________________

Become a supporting member! -- Shop at the Tactical Market!

Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage."
TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

=Sarc=

I wasn't there earlier on but we had some great games later on. We were outnumbered and managed to take back bases we had lost. From there some tried to single-handedly attack the last base, which I did not know until now was uncapturable since bases get shuffled around during the round. For the most part we sat back and defended our bases since it was nearly impossible to infiltrate the last base while holding our own bases.

It's sad to see that fellow TG'ers would spawn camp like that after discussion over TS that it's not fair play. My only thought is that they did not hear the discussion since the game sounds can drown out voices. It's also possible that players are getting accustomed to the game and are not sure what is fair and what isn't. As for TG outnumbering the pubbies, I really hate when that happens and there's not much to do except leave the server and rejoin on the other team. I do think it would be better to take the password off so teams can even out when the need arises. If we want to join the same team, we can stack up and force pubbies to join the other team. We've been doing that when playing on a server called Urban-Tigers. We just stack up and the teams stay close to even.

__________________
JO Guides & Tutorials
Team Element - It's who you game with.

LOWDRAG

Who was it??

We've all been this road before.. If someone's upset you by TK'ing...(which in my opinion, in TG, is not tolerated <--see how nice I put that)

Post who did it.. Maybe they were messing around, with you, or need to be carpeted to give them the opportunity to say ???? whatever... "I was Drunk" , "F off" whatever....

A post like this is your way of being politically correct and not starting a flamming war, and not trying to make this a major issue..ect.. ect... ect....

But Personally ... I think it's bad either way......... "what?" you might say??

I wasn't even around tonight but to see this , after the hours I've logged playing on our server... I find it hard to believe.........So call them out. Hurt's their feelings and they start cussing you out in here.. How long will that post last before Apo, ect.. cancel it.

It's also bad to post something like this if there's someone out there thinking about joining all those guys playing JO.

We lose either way. At least call the knucklehead out.

JMHO

Hillman

I think a big part of the TKing and base camping was inexperience with the game. I was TKed several times. Once while piloting a littlebird by someone else in the chopper. I was shot down with stingers several times. But every time I got an apology and I consider all of them accidents. I'm also guilty of TKing I shot someone who ran across my line of fire, bad timing on both of our parts their I guess. I shot down a couple friendly choppers. Later in the game I called out before firing a stinger at a target with no tag or waited for it to fire on a friendly location. I think this is the best approach with the stinger, if you are that far off you have the time to either call out on TS or wait for him to fire. As far as the base camping, when I realized what was happening I ran out from cover shooting at everyone and everything, essentially committing suicide, I thing other people did the same because when I respawned it was only showing one friendly in D.

Joint Operations is the game I have been waiting a long time for. You guys at Tactical Gamer seem like a good bunch, not like other groups I have seen the actually enjoy making the "pubbies" miserable. While the first couple games were not pretty, the last 3 or 4 where we were actually outnumbered and had some close matches (199 to 200) were the greatest game play I have experienced in a long time. I look forward to many more great games of Joint Operations with you guys.

Hillman

leejo

I've certainly TK'd a few people in this game for various stupid reasons. Joint Operations, IMHO, is very difficult to manage in TVT without excellent command and control. The maps are so big and the firepower can be so heavy that only fairly well-organized teams will avoid fratricide.

When the retail version comes out we can play some co-op, giving everyone the chance to refine coms, tactics, and techniques. Hopefully some of those skills will translate to TVT.

While I don't like the idea of spawn kills, I also don't like the idea of giving the other side a free pass from being attacked in depth. If we're attacking site B, we OUGHT to have someone making A's life a little miserable, too. If spawning at A becomes too dangerous, couldn't someone try spawning at the camp or site B?

leejo

Also, the other night Apo kept killing me and I was actually starting to wonder why he was being such a dick (sniff - PICKING on me! ) when I realized he was on the other side.

Some TKs aren't!

en4rcment

The particular problem with this game type is that there are 4 bases. They can be grabbed and taken over in any order, however, one team can only hold three of them. So if we hold bases B,C, and D, then the enemy can ONLY spawn at A. If we surround and attack A (While holding control of the other three bases) we are killing the enemy at the ONLY place they can spawn. We basically shoot them within seconds of them respawning...

Because of what is needed to take over a base, some spawn killing does need to happen. Before you move your team in...you are always attacking a base where people may be spawning. That is just an ugly side to the game...Just in this particular gametype, surrounding their final camp and killing them in the ONLY place they can spawn is less than honorable on our behalf...

I think you may have been confusing attacking ANY base where enemies may spawn at with attacking the ONLY base that enemy can spawn at. There is a BIG difference...

-----------------------------------

__________________

leejo

I'm lost. Where are you supposed to attack in that situation?

en4rcment

I guess we set up defensive perimeters once we are in a situation where we hold three bases. Defensive perimeters can be quite extensive with heavy ground vehicles, air patrols, and sneaky snipers patrolling the perimeter.

As long as we don't collectively surround the LAST enemy base and start spawn killing them...

Just to be clear, this is for a Team Deathmatch game type....not the normal Advance And Secure gametype. In the normal AAS gametype, we would have to attack the final base...

In Team Deathmatch, first team to score 200 kills (or most kills by game end) wins. We just found it immoral to spawn kill at the FINAL enemy base...even though kills are what wins that gametype...

Clear now?

---------------------

__________________

CingularDuality

Well, I want to stress this point: this is the first time I've seen this type of gameplay in literally years here. I've been playing Joint Ops for a couple weeks now, and never seen this happen before. I definitely don't want to discourage people from trying out Joint Ops. It's a great game. And while it's new, there will be TKs. It's a learning experience. At any rate, I'm not going to name names. I don't think that will help anything. Like I said, I almost deleted this entire thread when enforcement was the only other person in it. I don't want this to be a big deal, just a reminder that we play a certain way here.

__________________

Become a supporting member! -- Shop at the Tactical Market!

Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage."
TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

=Sarc=

Even without the spawn killing of the last base, it's still fish in a barrel. The only difference is we're in the barrel and the fish are jumping in through a tiny opening at the top. I was just in a game where we were outnumbered 3 to 1 and we still won by a landslide of 200 to ~65. We held two bases and waited for attackers. They came in, we killed them.

__________________
JO Guides & Tutorials
Team Element - It's who you game with.

leejo

Clear.

Tactically, I'd want to be on their throats the entire time. If we're just messing around, then backing off is the polite thing to do.

Apophis

There's just something about spawning and dying instantly, then spawning and dying instantly, then spawning and dying instantly, then spawning and dying instantly, then spawning and dying instantly, then spawning and dying instantly, then spawning and dying instantly, then spawning and dying instantly, that makes me want to not play on a particular server.

Winning is grand and everything, but I don't find any fun in not being challenged in the process.

__________________
Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.