Break Dancing

**FUNKED1** · 11-05-2004, 03:32 PM

It's not combat as we know it. Are you a shooter or a soldier in real life? Study military history and tactics? Forget all that stuff.

This game is more like a bizarre form of martial arts or street performance. The best way to win a 1 vs. 1 rifle engagement (at any range, even 200+ yards) is to bring up the gunsight, and dance from side to side.

Your acccuracy will not be affected at all, and the opponent will have a very difficult shot to make, as your character moves back and forth in 5-mph latency-warp-aided spurts and lurches. This is a fun game, but a sim it AIN'T.

eulogy · 11-05-2004, 03:43 PM

LOL. I agree. There should be things taken into account, like momentum that effect your character movement. ie, If you are at a standstill, you won't be running as soon as you start moving. It takes a couple of secs to get to speed. And the strafe left at full speed and instantly strafe right at full speed while not losing accuracy is a pain that most fps games have. Pretty rediculous.

Hopefully games in the future will take this into account.

Lil' Bird · 11-06-2004, 07:20 AM

I realised Joint Ops isn't meant to be realistic after playing it for a day, but I don't think you'll want a very realistic games as it will make it quite boring - imagine having only have one life for the whole map and get killed within the first minute.

There's a quite a number of reasonably realistic games though if that's what you want, take Rainbow Six Raven Shield for example - playing online, you only have one life for the whole map and movement will be difficult once you get hit plus weapon accuracy drop considerably. Operation Flashpoint is another game which is more realistic the way you get tired after running for a while, those things make a game more realistic, but it can make it less fun too.

Vahnn · 11-07-2004, 12:01 AM

The momentum thing would be great. I've never thought of that before. But if not that, at least have your gun bounce like crazy when moving and having your sights pulled up. That's just terrible.

And trust me: Ravenshield is no more realistic. Realism is not having one "life" per map and sitting the rest of it out. You can set most game servers to be like that. 2 years of Ravenshield experience let me tell almost anyone first hand that the game is horribly unrealistic.

Joint Ops is better, in my opinion. It just needs some tweaks.

Lil' Bird · 11-07-2004, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vahnn

And trust me: Ravenshield is no more realistic. Realism is not having one "life" per map and sitting the rest of it out. You can set most game servers to be like that. 2 years of Ravenshield experience let me tell almost anyone first hand that the game is horribly unrealistic.

I didn't play Ravenshield that long but I thought having one life for the whole map is an attempt to make it more realistic, plus the way your movement and accuracy is affected once you get shot. Why did you say it's horribly unrealistic? in what way?

I do agree about Joint Ops being more fun but it way too far from being realistic.

Few more questions, why respond to this on your first post? hmmm..... under alias? from somewhere I know?

jex · 11-09-2004, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil' Bird

I realised Joint Ops isn't meant to be realistic after playing it for a day, but I don't think you'll want a very realistic games as it will make it quite boring - imagine having only have one life for the whole map and get killed within the first minute.

There's a quite a number of reasonably realistic games though if that's what you want, take Rainbow Six Raven Shield for example - playing online, you only have one life for the whole map and movement will be difficult once you get hit plus weapon accuracy drop considerably. Operation Flashpoint is another game which is more realistic the way you get tired after running for a while, those things make a game more realistic, but it can make it less fun too.

LOL I just used both games as an example of better games than JO.

One thing differs here at TG - we really like one life games, and we like the realism and the fun doesn't drop either

With one life you get much more satisfaction for surviving a map. With respawns it cheapens the win everytime you die.

I would also say it's a fact that respawns make you a worse player. You should have been around for our Ghost Recon days. We had a team leader that would make a plan and then assign roles. We'd move up, covering each other, give sitreps, contact reports and all work together to win the mission. If you died early you waited, up to 45 minutes at times, until the next game came along and you know what - it didn't matter. Yeah we wanted to play again but nobody, not once, ever complained about waiting as we were all patient enough and nice enough to wait. Everyday, for a year and a half (when I started and TG was playing it long before I came along) we played GR almost religiously. We used tactics, set up ambushes and really immersed ourselves in the game.

Personally I think that TG is now looking to fill the hole that GR has left. JO comes a very poor second imo. When we get our equivalent of GR back again, things will be different and hopefully all the new people to tactical gamer will be able to experience the TG GR effect

Lil' Bird · 11-09-2004, 09:54 AM

I was actually quite patient when I started playing JO as a gunner and concentrating on keeping a good kill ratio, but I got so annoyed after being called a spawn camper of a known whingers in our country. So I changed my playing style and now hitting the PSP hard but still maintaining a reasonably good ratio, that's while medding fallen teammates in between.

Having one life for the whole map really adds to the challenge and I do like challenge, I always set my games to the hardest settings and use the most inaccurate weapon in the game. But where I play, I doubt that they will ever set the server like that, we simply got used to having action every few seconds, so patience is really low there except for dedicated snipers.

I might buy that Ghost Recon and see what it's like, are there servers running for that still?

jex · 11-09-2004, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vahnn

The momentum thing would be great. I've never thought of that before. But if not that, at least have your gun bounce like crazy when moving and having your sights pulled up. That's just terrible.

And trust me: Ravenshield is no more realistic. Realism is not having one "life" per map and sitting the rest of it out. You can set most game servers to be like that. 2 years of Ravenshield experience let me tell almost anyone first hand that the game is horribly unrealistic.

Joint Ops is better, in my opinion. It just needs some tweaks.

LOL I would disagree here, on a realism side of things. I find RvS to be the most realistic CQB game I have ever played. The weapon recoil is good, as is the bullet spread when you move and it feels pretty real too (having done real cqb myself), though more on a TvT level here rather than coop. The players move at good speeds as well, there's no 20mph side-step and weapon reload and change times seems pretty good too. I don't know of any other CQB game that comes close to realism as RvS does

jex · 11-09-2004, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil' Bird

I might buy that Ghost Recon and see what it's like, are there servers running for that still?

For me GR is pretty much dead - I played it too much and burned out. I'm not sure how many others play now but I would point you in the direction of

Luna

Lil' Bird · 11-09-2004, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jex

I don't know of any other CQB game that comes close to realism as RvS does

That excatly what I thought, even when just playing single player, AI are so good and almost impossible to beat if you set it to the highest setting - if you see them you're dead unless they're facing the other way. Ravenshield is probably the only game where I can't beat the AI at the hardest setting, just so damn fast for me.

Isn't there a Ghost Recon 2? or a sequel to it?

jex · 11-09-2004, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil' Bird

That excatly what I thought, even when just playing single player, AI are so good and almost impossible to beat if you set it to the highest setting - if you see them you're dead unless they're facing the other way. Ravenshield is probably the only game where I can't beat the AI at the hardest setting, just so damn fast for me.

LOL it's ping pong between this and the other forum

Yeah you should try elite on coop mode over the net, the latency means sometimes they shoot you before they actually appear in front of you. I do find though that you're own frame of mind in this game can mean a win or a loose on elite.

RvS is a game you MUST play aggressively, think agressively and act aggressively. It rewards skill at this level and I love it!

Vahnn · 11-11-2004, 01:12 PM

No, no alias, it was just the first topic i read (out of 15) that was something i was interested in commenting on. =) If that question was directed at me, that is.

in RvS, i was saying it's unrealistic for several reasons. It's just small stuff you notice after playing it so long. For instance, zooming in with a scope actually increases the accuracy of the weapon you're holding. In real life a scope just gives you a better view of what you're shooting at, but bullet spread is still the same. Imagine a cone extending from the barrel of your gun, and this cone slowly gets bigger as it gets farther away.

When you zoom in with a scope, the game acts as if the barrel of your gun is firing from the point where your view is, whatever distance a 4x scope "zooms" your view. That cone is starting from a point 15-20 feet ahead of you, rather than from the barrel of your gun, so imagine a smaller circle created by that cone on the wall ahead of you. The circle represents the area your bullets will spread in. I don't know if i'm explaining this well enough, it's the only way that makes sense to me right now... But basically this allows you to run at full speed, strafing back and forth and everything, and still shoot your targets accurately from up to 50 ft away. LAME!

There are lots of other minor things like that... =(

I downloaded the demo for Operation Flashpoint and Resistance. I LOVE the way the game feels, the feel of the weapons, the style of gameplay, the way targets are engaged at long ranges. But only for the single player demo. In 2 weeks, i haven't found a single game server (ie Gamespy Arcade, etc) that had any people playing the demo, so i've only been able to run around by myself.

Anyone know if any people play the retail game?

Vahnn · 11-11-2004, 01:17 PM

Oh, by the way, i play RvS only with shotguns now. Usually the SPAS-12, but for really tight stuff, i'll use the M1. Higher rate of fire. =)

Oh, and shotguns are perfect examples of the scope glitch i'm talking about. Try to engage a target from 40 ft with a shotgun, no scope. You'll be lucky if you even hit him with enough buckshot to gimp him after firing 10 shots. Add a scope, zoom in, and one shot, he's dead. Just try it.

**CingularDuality** · 11-11-2004, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vahnn

Oh, by the way, i play RvS only with shotguns now. Usually the SPAS-12, but for really tight stuff, i'll use the M1. Higher rate of fire. =)

Oh, and shotguns are perfect examples of the scope glitch i'm talking about. Try to engage a target from 40 ft with a shotgun, no scope. You'll be lucky if you even hit him with enough buckshot to gimp him after firing 10 shots. Add a scope, zoom in, and one shot, he's dead. Just try it.

RvS has shotguns with scopes????

**Mirfee** · 11-11-2004, 02:10 PM

Well... seeing as this is veering into related tangents, I'll chime in here.

First... yep... scopes on shotty's. Slap an ACOG 4x on, zoom in, and you've effectively got a drinking-straw sized choke. Sniping with a shotty... gotta love it.

One of the primary reasons I quit TvT RvS was stupid design choices like this. Aside from a tighter ret when zoomed in, you can also *run* while doing so. Ret spread due to fast movement was, accordingly, comparably reduced, so people deliberatly exploit the hell out of it. My old clan had members who worked to perfect this... shamelessly. I always hated how accurate the guns were, aka ret spread. Too many people have learned how to massage it so they can still play hardcore Rambo run'n'gun. Total turn off for me. So much of the game is outstanding in terms of presenting a largely realistic setting/scenario. But letting players get away with such unrealistic gameyness became a total turn-off.

Oh how I miss the days of precise, tight tactical TvT CQB. RvS is so loaded with that potential, but too many people play it like damn pubbies.

With JO, it's like that only worse. This is clearly a 'made-for-pubbies' kinda game. So much potential for tactical warfare greatness... but squandered on cheap arcade thrills. Don't get me wrong... it's fun if/when you can be in the right frame of mind for that gameplay, but I sure do miss some other options for when I want solid tactical teamwork.

On that note, OFP should be re-entering my possession in the near-ish future. I look forward to joining up for some battles!

11-05-2004, 03:32 PM	#1 (permalink)
FUNKED1 Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Rancho Valle de San José, Alta California Posts: 174	Break Dancing It's not combat as we know it. Are you a shooter or a soldier in real life? Study military history and tactics? Forget all that stuff. This game is more like a bizarre form of martial arts or street performance. The best way to win a 1 vs. 1 rifle engagement (at any range, even 200+ yards) is to bring up the gunsight, and dance from side to side. Your acccuracy will not be affected at all, and the opponent will have a very difficult shot to make, as your character moves back and forth in 5-mph latency-warp-aided spurts and lurches. This is a fun game, but a sim it AIN'T.

11-05-2004, 03:43 PM	#2 (permalink)
eulogy Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 13	Re: Break Dancing LOL. I agree. There should be things taken into account, like momentum that effect your character movement. ie, If you are at a standstill, you won't be running as soon as you start moving. It takes a couple of secs to get to speed. And the strafe left at full speed and instantly strafe right at full speed while not losing accuracy is a pain that most fps games have. Pretty rediculous. Hopefully games in the future will take this into account. __________________ ']['(O)(O)]\|_ eulogy

11-06-2004, 07:20 AM	#3 (permalink)
Lil' Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Australia Age: 37 Posts: 46	Re: Break Dancing I realised Joint Ops isn't meant to be realistic after playing it for a day, but I don't think you'll want a very realistic games as it will make it quite boring - imagine having only have one life for the whole map and get killed within the first minute. There's a quite a number of reasonably realistic games though if that's what you want, take Rainbow Six Raven Shield for example - playing online, you only have one life for the whole map and movement will be difficult once you get hit plus weapon accuracy drop considerably. Operation Flashpoint is another game which is more realistic the way you get tired after running for a while, those things make a game more realistic, but it can make it less fun too. __________________ Joint Ops screenshots threads

11-07-2004, 12:01 AM	#4 (permalink)
Vahnn Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 13	Re: Break Dancing The momentum thing would be great. I've never thought of that before. But if not that, at least have your gun bounce like crazy when moving and having your sights pulled up. That's just terrible. And trust me: Ravenshield is no more realistic. Realism is not having one "life" per map and sitting the rest of it out. You can set most game servers to be like that. 2 years of Ravenshield experience let me tell almost anyone first hand that the game is horribly unrealistic. Joint Ops is better, in my opinion. It just needs some tweaks.

11-09-2004, 09:54 AM	#7 (permalink)
Lil' Bird Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Australia Age: 37 Posts: 46	Re: Break Dancing I was actually quite patient when I started playing JO as a gunner and concentrating on keeping a good kill ratio, but I got so annoyed after being called a spawn camper of a known whingers in our country. So I changed my playing style and now hitting the PSP hard but still maintaining a reasonably good ratio, that's while medding fallen teammates in between. Having one life for the whole map really adds to the challenge and I do like challenge, I always set my games to the hardest settings and use the most inaccurate weapon in the game. But where I play, I doubt that they will ever set the server like that, we simply got used to having action every few seconds, so patience is really low there except for dedicated snipers. I might buy that Ghost Recon and see what it's like, are there servers running for that still? __________________ Joint Ops screenshots threads

11-11-2004, 01:12 PM	#12 (permalink)
Vahnn Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 13	Re: Break Dancing No, no alias, it was just the first topic i read (out of 15) that was something i was interested in commenting on. =) If that question was directed at me, that is. in RvS, i was saying it's unrealistic for several reasons. It's just small stuff you notice after playing it so long. For instance, zooming in with a scope actually increases the accuracy of the weapon you're holding. In real life a scope just gives you a better view of what you're shooting at, but bullet spread is still the same. Imagine a cone extending from the barrel of your gun, and this cone slowly gets bigger as it gets farther away. When you zoom in with a scope, the game acts as if the barrel of your gun is firing from the point where your view is, whatever distance a 4x scope "zooms" your view. That cone is starting from a point 15-20 feet ahead of you, rather than from the barrel of your gun, so imagine a smaller circle created by that cone on the wall ahead of you. The circle represents the area your bullets will spread in. I don't know if i'm explaining this well enough, it's the only way that makes sense to me right now... But basically this allows you to run at full speed, strafing back and forth and everything, and still shoot your targets accurately from up to 50 ft away. LAME! There are lots of other minor things like that... =( I downloaded the demo for Operation Flashpoint and Resistance. I LOVE the way the game feels, the feel of the weapons, the style of gameplay, the way targets are engaged at long ranges. But only for the single player demo. In 2 weeks, i haven't found a single game server (ie Gamespy Arcade, etc) that had any people playing the demo, so i've only been able to run around by myself. Anyone know if any people play the retail game?

11-11-2004, 01:17 PM	#13 (permalink)
Vahnn Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 13	Re: Break Dancing Oh, by the way, i play RvS only with shotguns now. Usually the SPAS-12, but for really tight stuff, i'll use the M1. Higher rate of fire. =) Oh, and shotguns are perfect examples of the scope glitch i'm talking about. Try to engage a target from 40 ft with a shotgun, no scope. You'll be lucky if you even hit him with enough buckshot to gimp him after firing 10 shots. Add a scope, zoom in, and one shot, he's dead. Just try it.

11-11-2004, 02:10 PM	#15 (permalink)
Mirfee Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Ithaca NY Age: 37 Posts: 1,703	Re: Break Dancing Well... seeing as this is veering into related tangents, I'll chime in here. First... yep... scopes on shotty's. Slap an ACOG 4x on, zoom in, and you've effectively got a drinking-straw sized choke. Sniping with a shotty... gotta love it. One of the primary reasons I quit TvT RvS was stupid design choices like this. Aside from a tighter ret when zoomed in, you can also run while doing so. Ret spread due to fast movement was, accordingly, comparably reduced, so people deliberatly exploit the hell out of it. My old clan had members who worked to perfect this... shamelessly. I always hated how accurate the guns were, aka ret spread. Too many people have learned how to massage it so they can still play hardcore Rambo run'n'gun. Total turn off for me. So much of the game is outstanding in terms of presenting a largely realistic setting/scenario. But letting players get away with such unrealistic gameyness became a total turn-off. Oh how I miss the days of precise, tight tactical TvT CQB. RvS is so loaded with that potential, but too many people play it like damn pubbies. With JO, it's like that only worse. This is clearly a 'made-for-pubbies' kinda game. So much potential for tactical warfare greatness... but squandered on cheap arcade thrills. Don't get me wrong... it's fun if/when you can be in the right frame of mind for that gameplay, but I sure do miss some other options for when I want solid tactical teamwork. On that note, OFP should be re-entering my possession in the near-ish future. I look forward to joining up for some battles! __________________

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