Re: Fireteam Tactics

**=Sarc=** · 08-25-2004, 02:59 AM

Team Element has worked out a nice method of fireteam communication and some tactics. It's pretty much what I outlined in my couple of posts above.

**AerStryke** · 10-20-2004, 01:30 PM

I've noticed that ALL military tactics in true practice state the key importance of a machine gunner at the core of a solid infantry fireteam. Yet I've never noticed anyone playing as a gunner ingame, (most public and even clan servers). I know there are a lot of emplaced 50 cals and jeeps/strykers/BTRs etc w/ heavy machine guns but it seems like a team could really benefit from a solid mobile gunner. Is there a serious flaw in the gunner kit design? (I actually haven't played as a gunner much myself!) Also, how effective are gunners against vehicles? Do they do any damage? I might be lurking about the TG server trying out the gunner position!

**TG_JBRanger** · 10-20-2004, 05:33 PM

right on! The gunner position is so under-used. I have just recently (read this weekend) switched from playing as an engineer armed with satchels to playing as a gunner. The satchel role I could place at bridges and wait and watch and blow it when enemy tried and cross. This was effective but soon you ran out of satchels and had to rearm. Not too bad if you were close to a PSP but forget it if forward of the line or watching a bridge on a flank. With the gunner position I essentially do as all of you have stated. I can and have spot targets by using 10-7 for indirect mortar fire, defend bases, provide cover fire for teams assaulting or medic teams. This has proved quite a blast as it gets into more realistic scenarios. I as well as others having been in the army at one time have strived for accuracy in games not just kills. You can run into a battle jsut like the assaulters but stay a bit behind and set up a firing position. By looking at the minimap I can tell the most direct route for the enemy as the shortest path is a straight line. I then watch say a 60 - 90 degree arc. This is my kill zone. Not to mention if you burst fire the 60, RPK, and others can be quite accurate. Make sure you are prone though or else you won't hit the broad side of a barn! Anyway, just my 2 cents... Good stuff. I would definitely be up for playing the gunner role.

**jex** · 10-20-2004, 06:23 PM

No one plays the gunner because the machine guns are so inaccurate in anything other than the prone position. And in the prone position you can't see anything because of the undergrowth.
The army use machine guns to supress the enemy and allow friendly troops to manouver into a position to neutralise the enemy or force them to fall back. In JO, no one is scared of 200 rounds of 5.56 ammo comming their way because the sounds in JO are crap and don't give anywhere near the impression of incomming fire (for examples, play either Vietcong or Americas Army for good sound) and the players can side step at 20 mph and know that a gunner is piss ****ty in the accuracy field and therefore aren't scared at all to step out.
Nova really need to do something about the gunner. I've played gunner and simply cannot play the role as it should be played. Take GR for instance. Because the players move a lot slower and more realistically, no-one would step out from a corner when that corner was being shot at by opfor. You knew you'd end up dead so you didn't peek out - that's supressive fire at work. You won't find this effect in JO at present.
Saying all that some people do find they can play using the gunner, but presently I'll stick with my M16 thanks

**TG_JBRanger** · 10-20-2004, 06:50 PM

That's the great thing about JO. Different tastes for different people. I for one find the gunnery role indeed frustrating but oh so worth it when the kills keep pouring in. Last night I provided cover fire and a distraction so my team could advance and take out the spawn points. This could only be accomplished by being in the prone position on in an elevated area. Also, I was well hidden as that particular area had quite a bit of undergrowth but I positioned myself so I had my field of fire. Granted, I could not kill everything but I had a dead bead on where the majority of vehicles were and the people would go for those and get mowed down. LOL!

- Embrace the suck.

**=Sarc=** · 10-20-2004, 09:19 PM

I've heard a lot of players staying away from the gunner role because they tend to play on servers with tracers. Fire a few bursts and you're toast. I'm thinking of trying the role out though. I'm sure a gunner can be effective if we can figure out the right way to play.

**FUNKED1** · 10-24-2004, 08:46 PM

Tracers off would help gunners a lot.

**TG_JBRanger** · 10-24-2004, 10:01 PM

Tracers off would be definitely better. The gunners are already down because to use them you have to go prone so why have to fight tracers as well?

**duckilama** · 10-25-2004, 12:18 PM

Tracers on is about the only thing that gives me a lifespan of more than 30 seconds against snipers. (Well, more the minimap wedge, but I don't think you can have one without the other.)

Is being gunner class any harder/easier than being a gunner using emplaced or mounted weapons? Are tracers really the cause of death when using mounted/emplaced guns or is it possible that the bigger guns are perceived as a bigger thread, and being louder they are easier to target. Tack on the fact that you are stationary and unless you have a really good team covering you, you'd be toast doing the same thing with a BB gun, no?

I'm not military, but someone posted a site that was a big huge tactics book/compilation of articles, and everything I read made it seem that a gunner is inherently at risk - slower movement, the need for stability and "stillness", everything makes the gunner a "better" target, and fireteam/squad tactics by default do a lot of things geared towards keeping this guy alive.

So a solo gunner does and should have a short life expectancy, where one with a truly coordinated and disciplined team ought to be able to wreak some serious havoc.

Again, I'm not military, but I've done a LOT of reading, particularly military fireteam and squad level tactics, SOPs, etc. since starting Joint Ops, so feel free to correct me. It just _seems_ from what I've read that the gunner situation is fairly accurate/realistic and what is needed is a more cohesive and disciplined fireteam modeled after the "real" thing.

Thoughts?

**=Sarc=** · 10-25-2004, 08:52 PM

From the comments I've seen about gunners is that with tracers, it makes them easy to detect when laying suppressive fire. The gunner should be able to lay down fire to allow teammates to move. However, constantly shooting gives away the gunner's position and the tracers (aka minimap wedge) makes it much easier to spot the gunner.

A player on a mounted weapon is also vulnerable to the tracer effect but players probably don't complain as much because they may not be using the weapon for suppressive fire. The main problem with suppressive fire is finding a spot where the player can fire frequent bursts without giving away his position too easily.

Tracers really can be the cause of death for gunners or anybody laying down suppressive fire. When you are under fire and can see the wedge telling you the direction of fire within a 10 degree arc, how easy is it to spot the enemy? You already know the direction, now you just have to spot the muzzle flash or tracers. It makes it so much easier to detect enemies, which is probably why you want it on (due to a non-surround sound setup).

**TG_JBRanger** · 10-25-2004, 09:05 PM

Yes, the gunner is a risky position to have without support. Funny, a support role that needs support. That's the way it works though. Work as a team, accomplish alot. Work alone, well, it's gonna be a much tougher fight.

**Modestia** · 10-28-2004, 04:12 PM

Hi All,

I've had OK success as a gunner and it is a fun class to play. Oddly enough, it seems that the most effective way to play a gunner is to pretend that you are some sort of mutant sniper

All of the things things that keep a sniper alive like small field of view wedges and being surrounded by hard cover work well for a gunner. Your accuracy sucks but you can really hose a stationary location (It's fun to play an anti-sniper role.) The folliage thing when prone really does screw you up though. I have to inch out where I can see, but then I'm left exposed with my butt hanging out. Pretty much like a sniper that can't find a good location

I seem to have the best luck either defending a base where I can find a good location to set up, or on assault near the enemies base (again from a completey prone position.)

I've been on a crumby (Ricochett) wireless internet connection until last night, so hopefully you will see me around now. I'll have to figure out the team speak thing but I'll mostly be listening because I don't have a microphone yet.

**420joejoe** · 10-29-2004, 12:53 PM

ive been using the gunner for sometime and i really dont see the drawbacks.
ya you light up the night with tracers. just be carefull about it. when i setup to fire i make sure i can duck behind something quick. then when people look, im just a ghost.
as for accuracy. i can kill a target from 250m with a single shot on one knee. if i go prone, i can take a out dingy full of troops, sometimes a jeep full. when i assault i have enough ammo to clear the outside of a bunker as well as the interior. all while never letting off the trigger. when i go one for one against an enemy. i usually win since i get 1 shot kills and most other weapons shoot spitballs. in fact since i switched to the gunner not only have my scores improved, so have my fireteams.
but the best part, by far, now i can take down those birds that always distract me. and im not talking about heli's.

just thought you guys could use the extra 2 penny's.

**jex** · 10-29-2004, 01:17 PM

Nice to see someone making good use of the gunner - what MG's are you using?

**Modestia** · 10-29-2004, 03:47 PM

Oh and I forgot to mention that I use my binoculars a lot hehe... Because the iron sights don't magnifiy very much I like to get a good look at the area I'm trying to hose down. Beside situational awareness is underrated. I don't like the Rebel support weapons much, but I usualy end up using the PKM when I end up on that side. When I'm on Joint-Ops I usualy go for the M249 becasue it has higher ammo capacity and is more acurate. I find I never use all my ammo so I'm thinging of moving up to the M240. Anyone have an opinion of how it stacks up against the other squad automatics?

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