L4d Tank Tactics - Page 3

**Avs** · 01-20-2009, 01:58 AM

I feel 4 assault rifles is more effective to kill tanks now than 4 autoshotties.

Shotguns still deal lots of damage to tanks (25% less though). But they they also take twice as long to reload from 1 shell to 10. It takes 3.6 seconds to reload those 9 shells. But each 9 shots at point blank will deal around 2000 damage. The problem with this is that tanks are getting better at well, playing tanks. The guarentee that you will get those shots at point blank depends on the situation, but lets say we're looking at a at distance or run and shoot scenario (which is preferred in most cases, say after a tank is on fire, or during finales).

Assault rifles take 1.8 seconds to reload. They deal about 1500 damage at range (anything between 3 feet and 80), per clip if all bullets hit. If you use rough estimates, this usually means you'll be able to get two full clips in versus a full clip -1 shell of shotgun plus reloading. The shotgun empties faster, but in the run and shoot method, your damage will be much lower than the assault rifle after the first volley.

In this sense, a firing squad of assault rifles will take the tank out after two volleys. The autoshotties however will not have the same luxury, as well as the need to not shoot unless you are close. The problem is special infected helping the tank. Assault rifles guarentee you can cover people that are separated from you. But autoshotties do not.

Because of this cover assault rifles can provide, as well as high output against a tank, I think the assault rifle at this point is beginning to make more sense in a lot of maps. Also, with just one person firing at a tank, they can actually slow the tank down enough so that they wont be within melee range of its punch (if you are injured). The shotgun however can't due this due to reloading nearly as well.

The only problem with the assault rifle strat is that it loses benefits in close combat. But if you know where you will be engaging the tank, give the gun a second thought since it cuts through infected just like autoshotties do.

**Sirusblk** · 01-20-2009, 04:39 AM

Shotguns are more for situations when you're "turtling" I'd say. Close quarters, not expecting to run around like mad. They also have the disadvantage of interrupting your reload when you melee, sometimes a good thing, other times bad.

The Assault Rifle is great for running and gunning, albeit it drains ammo faster than <insert funny allusion>.

Really it boils down to the type of map you're playing. I've said before that 4 auto shotties can absolutely down a tank before he can take two steps into the living room of Blood Harvest. Factoring in the 25% damage decrease I'll say the tank can now take three steps. Of course you could have all 4 survivors running around outside and they'd be better off with assault riffles.

So really it's the tactics of your team and map that need to be taken into account.

Morganan · 01-20-2009, 12:36 PM

A few points:

-Even at 25% less damage, the autoshotty is the preferred tank killer. A tank can still be killed in 1 full clip from each survivor with the autoshotty without every shot/pellet hitting, no other weapon has that ability.
-If you did get set on fire as the tank for some reason and you have a single incapped survivor, make a quick decision as to whether or not you will be able to incap the other 3. If not, kill the one incapped survivor. Why you ask? It's better to kill one survivor then incap 3 and have the 4th survivor pick them all up.
-Stay away from the boomer: His explosion on death stuns you right like a propane tank does, steer clear of him.
-Sometimes it's worth running into the fire. Killing one survivor means in the future, 2 hunters+1 smoker can= instagib. Like I said earlier, it's always better to kill one survivor then to incap 3 survivors.

**Avs** · 01-27-2009, 08:06 PM

Here are some additional tank tips from the steam forums:

Quote:

It's understandable that a lot of people don't really understand the Tank. He's a rare spawn in general, and splitting the chance to play as him with three other people means little chance to practice. This affects the survivors too, as his scarcity makes getting experience dealing with him more difficult. That said, here's a bunch of things about the Tank that people either don't know, don't think about, or are just flat out wrong on:

1. We should run like headless chickens:

This is just about never the solution, especially on VS. In most Tank encounters the real problem isn't the Tank, it's the other infected. Don't panic and run like nuts, carefully stay out of his range and concentrate on keeping the area clear of other infected. They move faster than you do, the Tank (usually) doesn't. A single normal infected can mean the difference between escaping unscathed and as that big wall of muscle turns you into a pothole.

The other problem here is that, while everyone is busy running away, they aren't shooting him. The real approach to handling a Tank is to work as a group to keep your distance from him, and whoever isn't being chased by him is shooting him in the ♥♥♥. There's two reasons for this: A) it does damage, which will eventually kill him (that's the point, remember), and B) being shot temporarily slows him down, so being shot continuously will give his pursuee breathing room. This is key for saving someone who is < 50 health, or who runs into an unexpected obstruction. Try it, it works.

2. Set him on fire, then run like headless chickens:

In addition to all of the problems above, (in co-op only) setting the Tank on fire makes him run faster, which also means he runs faster than you. If your teammates are busy running in three separate directions he can now easily catch up to you and turn you into a pothole. Fire is great insurance against the Tank, but it won't kill him fast enough to make a difference on all but the easiest difficulties. Fire+scatter is just as lethal in VS as scattering is.

3. As Tank, the rock throw is useless:

This just isn't true. In some situations where the survivors are grouped together somewhere that puts you in easy range of a molotov and/or spray of bullets, it's better to hang back and go for some rock throws from a safe distance. Picking up a rock tends to make anyone you aren't pointed at brave, and makes them forget that the direction of the throw isn't determined until just before it happens. Learn to grab a rock and do a last second turn and throw at someone pelting you in the back. It's pretty much the only option to handle survivors that are kiting you well if your buddies let you down.

4. As a Tank, I should just charge in and do some DAMAGE!!!:

No, you shouldn't. Well, maybe, but it isn't that simple. You start out with a lot of rage time (I think 40 seconds). Take advantage of it. If the survivors keep advancing, look for the best spot to hit them (tight hallways) and bide your time. At the least, give your teammates time to spawn in and help you. If need be, try to get a distance rock throw in and retreat with your freshly regenerated rage timer. Like any other class in the game, the Tank depends on teamwork to get the job done. The only reason this doesn't seem true is also the point of this post: statistically, no one knows how to deal with a Tank.

The other problem with charging in is that it's predictable, and can be costly. On the NM5 roof the absolute worst thing to do is charge right through minigun fire at the survivors. Congrats on losing half of your health before you even get close to anyone. You'll probably get set on fire too. If you hang back, especially if you run around the roof for an alternate route, you can hit them from a better position and give your teammates time to distract them. A survivor ready to throw a molly looks pretty distinctive, and there's nothing funnier than owning up as a Tank because you waited long enough for a hunter to pounce the guy trying to set you on fire.

*Parking a tank is pretty much sitting somewhere and letting your rage run out, so the tank remains stationary until triggered by the survivors, like in Campaign. The most notable place to do this is in NM4, in the final safe room. Not very honorable, but if the survivors are vent camping (behind the elevator) with a full stock of mollies and auto shotties, it's just the way to stick it to them.*

(Portion in *'s is courtesy of OmNomNomNom, thanks)

5. As a Tank, I should hit anything I can reach:

Usually, this is true, but if one of your teamates has pounced or grabbed a survivor your new priority is to protect that situation at all costs. In practice, a Hunter pounce does more DPS than Tank punches unless you consistently land every single punch as fast as you can swing (hint: no). If one of your teammates has a survivor, do your best to keep the rest busy and away from him. At the very least, don't knock him free. Given that you have the ability to hit anyone else, you're cutting into the team's DPS by doing so.

6. As a Tank, I should hurry up or else I'll lose control:

This can be a good thing. IMO they shouldn't have put individual scores for infected in L4D, it just encourages people to play for their score instead of for the team's benefit. Sometimes you need to wait for the right moment to strike, and sometimes that moment is after your rage timer expires. In my opinion it's usually better to run in rather than let the AI take over, so if you're the second one with it take your best chance within the rage timer. The only time this doesn't work is if you're trying to park him somewhere, but that's obvious.

Other important facts:

1. The Tank's swing takes a little time to connect. Try to lead your swing a bit if you're running up to a survivor. Otherwise you give them a little time to get out from in front of you before they get hit.

2. The rock throw doesn't auto fire if it's held down after it charges. You have to spam the button if you're trying to bombard the survivors.

3. In co-op, fire makes the Tank run faster. Be sure you have plenty of space to run around him, and are able to kite him around something while everyone else shoots him. In VS, it's just about a win-win, just make sure you don't have to run through the fire too much.

4. Vents *and windows* seriously slow down the Tank. Abuse/avoid this as appropriate. *In co-op NM5, jumping through the window gives you a good 10-20s of shooting gallery time while he squeezes his fat ♥♥♥ through* (portion in *'s courtesy of thomasng1989)

5. The AI Tank likes to climb stuff. If you're kiting him around something watch for him to try and shortcut over it.

6. Meleeing an AI Tank in the back will cause him to focus on you. Use this to get his attention away from a downed survivor. Melee him and run away shooting to keep his attention. Only do this if the other two survivors are there to fire on him as well, otherwise it's probably suicide. This is just about the only way to save someone on Expert.

7. You can shoot the rock. If you're out in the open, do this. If you've got any kind of cover, that's probably the better alternative. It takes a few hits to break, so don't be surprised if this fact doesn't always give you rock immunity.

8. Explosions (propane tanks, pipe bombs) stagger the Tank. They also do a decent bit of damage. Hitting him with a pipe bomb probably won't happen, but if you can get him to run over a propane tank or three when you shoot them it can do a lot to help.

9. Unless you're in green (*correction: above 40 health*), he runs faster than you. So if you're in anything less than green the Tank music is your cue to heal up, get your pills ready, or put some distance between you and him and make peace with your maker. *As a Tank, be aware that there's a ten point range where someone having a yellow outline does not mean you can catch them.*

Sections in *'s courtesy of madcap, among others.

10. Hitting survivors with an object (car, tree trunk, generator, anything outlined in red) is the fastest way to take them from green to incap. Go for it when possible, but watch out for situations (like the NM2 room below the generator room) where survivors can easily duck behind obstructions.

11. If you aren't the Tank, he needs you to help slow the survivors down. They run faster than he does, but not if they're Boomered and surrounded by commons. Likewise it's pretty easy to meet the survivors at their target when they're running to help a buddy who's been pinned or tongued ... or hit them with a rock while they're doing so.

12. Avoid fire at all costs. Many survivors will throw their molotov ahead of you a bit early to give themselves more room to run. Watch their outlines; if they have the molly out look for the opportunity to stop short of running into flames. If you are on fire, you've only got a limited amount of time to go do some damage, make everything you do count.

13. Don't be discouraged if you don't do well. Sometimes you get outplayed, or your teammates don't help, or you just get unlucky. If you tried to do what I outlined in this guide and still didn't do much damage, examine how you (or your teammates) deviated from the suggestions or maybe how the survivors really did outplay you. I very probably do not know everything about the Tank, maybe you can learn something from your defeat and have something to share. Above all, anyone balling you out for not doing well is a punk ♥♥♥♥♥ or just a poor sport, don't bother listening. Take constructive criticism and spend some time thinking about what (if anything) went wrong.

14. Memorize the finale sequence, and be prepared to help the Tank after the second infected wave. If you get the Tank, make sure to spawn your current infected in before he gets control, a bot infected is better than none at all.

15. If the survivors are doing a great job staying out of your reach, look for a good way to quickly get behind cover. Give your teammates a chance to distract them or give them a chance to slip up and give you an opening.

16. As survivors, be sure to have at least one person with an automatic weapon (Uzi/M16). Since every bullet slows the tank down on impact, these guns do a great job of keeping him away from everyone else. Also, take advantage of the minigun any time you can. It does great damage and also works to slow him down.

17. In stages where it is applicable (namely, NM4/NM5), look for opportunities to knock survivors off the edge of the building. This is a one-hit death for them, and can often be achieved by strafing as you move to position yourself opposite the edge of the building from the survivor. As a survivor, prefer taking a hit from the Tank to putting yourself between him and the ledge. Get off the top of the building (with the mini-gun nest) in NM5 as soon as you can to avoid being punted off. Any of the elevated areas in this level are dangerous, but it is usually difficult for a Tank to position himself to knock you from the lower levels.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forum...d.php?t=792307

**Avs** · 02-02-2009, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Old news but nevertheless, added to this thread:

* Tank Onfire run speed: 178*
* Tank Walk speed: 100 (different from the universal 85 walk speed.)

The tank's crouchwalk speed is the same as the universal one though.
As of the Jan 23 2009 L4D update, the tank now DOES get slowed down when he's on fire.

Personally I never really noticed a big difference, maybe because EVERYONE and their dog shoots the tank these days (awesome).

Random fact: Tanks only get slowed down by gunfire within a certain distance of shots hitting it. The minimum is 200, the maximum is 400. Anything outside of this range will not slow a tank down!

**WhiskeySix** · 04-07-2009, 11:50 AM

bump for tankey goodness

**Boot** · 04-07-2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avs

Tanks only get slowed down by gunfire within a certain distance of shots hitting it. The minimum is 200, the maximum is 400. Anything outside of this range will not slow a tank down!

Ummm, 200 what? Feet? Meters? Pixels? & How do you judge it? If things were to scale, Zoey's ___ would be bigger.

Mech__Warrior · 04-08-2009, 01:00 PM

I like to separate the survivors, they're much easier when they all run in random directions. Incap one and move on.

Another thing; the safe house door can be knocked off only if the survivors opened it and don't close it. Such haste can be easily punished.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boot

It is not a bug. You can see in the 4th picture Transcendant posted that an area of the wall at left is breakable (looks like a neuron). Any infected can break it down.

There was this one time I was tank at the beginning of No Mercy 4. (Survivors haven't even left the safe house yet) They stayed in there and shot me. I was able to punch through the walls, but not deal that much damage to them.

Morganan · 04-08-2009, 01:06 PM

Assume any unit frame of reference in this title is inches. 200-400 units is roughly 15-25 feet. Something's "speed" is how many units they can cover in a certain time frame. (think 5 seconds)

Avs: In vs. mode, the tanks speed remains constant whether on fire or not on fire and the only thing that slows him down is getting hit by bullets or a propane tank or being in a boomers explosion radius, in co-op the tank gets faster when he is set on fire. That's why I would love to see the tanks speed while on fire increased in vs. mode to match co-op mode.

Uchiha Obito · 04-08-2009, 02:09 PM

I think it is worth mentioning the changes from the March patch just in case someone went straight here for tank tips and didn't search the patch info.

Tanks now have AoE when they punch. Tanks now "crawl" a bit faster. Tank spawns are slightly different for each team in versus mode.

This means that as a tank if the survivors are packed close together they are now sitting ducks.

Morganan · 04-08-2009, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mech__Warrior

I like to separate the survivors, they're much easier when they all run in random directions. Incap one and move on.

Another thing; the safe house door can be knocked off only if the survivors opened it and don't close it. Such haste can be easily punished.

There was this one time I was tank at the beginning of No Mercy 4. (Survivors haven't even left the safe house yet) They stayed in there and shot me. I was able to punch through the walls, but not deal that much damage to them.

A few notes about these comments..

-Saferoom doors cannot be busted down in vs. mode.
-The frustration meter (20 seconds) does not tick down when the survivors are inside the starting saferoom whether the door is open or not.
-The tanks main job is to make sure at least 1 survivor is killed. Ideally you want to incap all 4 survivors obviously as the tank, but killing one survivor dead is far better then incapping 3 survivors and allowing the 4th to pick them all back up. 3 survivors are far easier to kill then 4 survivors as you always have the capacity to control all 3 of them with 2 hunters and 1 smoker. The closer to the beginning the tank is spawned, the more important it becomes to kill one survivors instead of trying to get them all.(again, ideally you want to incap all 4 survivors, but that isnt always realistic) Especially with the new changes to passing the tank, you cant just park him somewhere anymore, so it's far better for you to run him through the fire then the AI to do so. Since running the tank into the fire puts a timer on his life, be realistic and just concentrate on incapping one and protecting your teammates so they can kill him.

Hope that helps

**Sirusblk** · 04-08-2009, 06:13 PM

I'm assuming Valve units are what's meant? A character model is roughly 80 units. So you can kinda judge the distance from that.

**Skylark** · 04-08-2009, 06:20 PM

but it always seemed really hard for me as a tank to kill someone. Even when they are down, it took a LOT of hits to kill someone. meanwhile, you are getting pummeled by the others. Granted, with other zombies, it's easier to kill one. maybe be a meat shield for the hunter tearing the incapped survivor up.

Morganan · 04-08-2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirusblk

I'm assuming Valve units are what's meant? A character model is roughly 80 units. So you can kinda judge the distance from that.

72 units tall by 32 units wide and 32 units of depth for a survivor model, 1 unit=roughly 1 inch.

Morganan · 04-08-2009, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylark

but it always seemed really hard for me as a tank to kill someone. Even when they are down, it took a LOT of hits to kill someone. meanwhile, you are getting pummeled by the others. Granted, with other zombies, it's easier to kill one. maybe be a meat shield for the hunter tearing the incapped survivor up.

The tank does 24 damage/swing to any survivors inside of his "cone" for his aoe punch. The tank and the boomer are the only 2 special infected that do not do bonus damage to incapped survivors. An incapped survivor has basically 300 hp's that must be chewed through until he "dies". (hunters do *3 normal damage to incapped survivors, smokers do an extra 12/attack to incapped survivors that are being held by the smokers tongue) That's why it is always better to handle the actual incapping of a survivor with the tank, then herd the remaining survivors away so a hunter can finish the job. That's why a good player using the hunter when the tank is active should never pounce on a survivor until that survivor is incapped by the tank.

Think of it like this:

1) The boomers job when the tank is active is to not allow the survivors to kite the tank by bringing a mob on the survivors and thus slowing them down.
2) The smokers job when the tank is active is twofold. Either A) try and slow the survivors down so the tank can hit one if the bomer failed to boom the survivors or B) Stop a lone survivor from saving an incapped teammate or slow down the group when the tank is dead from getting to that lone survivor.
3) The hunters job is to kill any survivors the tank has incapped.