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  1. #1
    Avs
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    INFO: Weapon Damage (mostly to Tanks)

    Updated with this image from Gameriot:
    Source: http://hellforge.gameriot.com/blogs/...veness-vs-Tank


    Quote Originally Posted by DiggerDogg View Post
    Just saw these: A GREAT WEAPONS THREAD. Another good weapons thread.

    Wish I'd waited 'till Nov. 4th before considering this...

    But being occasionally obsessive compulsive...nope...only occasionally...

    The L4D2 Tanks are wimps, but it's still SOME sort of damage-standard that's easy for me to remember.
    The first 2/3 of what follows deals pretty much ONLY with Tanks.

    Surprises:Following is Damage Against EXPERT Difficulty Tanks
    (at extremely short range, against blind, still Tanks)

    Pistols
    45 seconds - fast dual pistols - 8 clips (slightly less than 8 clips)
    63 seconds - dual pistols manually fired - 8 clips (slightly less than 8 clips) (one trial only)
    63 seconds - magnum pistol - 13+ clips (1-2 shells into 14th clip) (one trial)
    lotsa seconds - single pistol - 16 clips
    Ranged* clips required:
    dual pistols 8/blah
    magnum
    pistol
    SMGs
    35 seconds - silenced smg - 7 clips (slightly less than 7 clips)
    45 seconds - smg - 9 clips (about 8.5 clips)

    Assault Rifles
    26 seconds - ak47 - 4th clip (more than half way into 4th clip)
    31 seconds - assault rifle - 5 clips (slightly less than 5 clips)
    33 seconds - triple-shot assault rifle - 3+ clips (second burst from 4th clip)

    Sniper Rifles
    31 seconds - military sniper rifle - 3 clips (59 rounds)
    42 seconds - hunting rifle - 6 clips (59 rounds - same with head-shots)

    Shotguns
    25 seconds - combat shotgun - 4+ reloads (41=40 & 1 shell)
    27 seconds - auto shotgun - 4+ reloads (41=40 & 1 shell)
    46 seconds - pump shotgun - 4+ reloads (34=32 & 2 shells)
    48 seconds - chrome shotgun - 4+ reloads (35=32 & 3shells)

    Melee Weapons

    10 swings - Machete (10 swings in 7 seconds)
    10 swings - Frying Pan (8.5 seconds)
    10 swings - Electric Guitar (8.5 seconds)
    10 swings - Police Baton (6+ seconds)

    (Editorial: More proof that melee weapons are meant to be noob-friendly)

    Expert swings to Incap a Survivor with FF

    15 hits - Frying Pan
    15 hits - Electric Guitar
    20 hits - Machete
    20 hits - Tonfa (and it's VERY hard to hit a survivor with the Tonfa, between 6 and 24 extra swings were required to get 20 hits)

    Swings to Kill other Infected
    2 swings - charger (reported: 1 head hit)
    1 swing - all other infected besides tank, witch (below) and charger

    ---------------------------------------------------

    CHANGED from Left 4 Dead 1 Campaign mode:

    Fire and Weapon Damage COMBINE (like in Left 4 Dead Versus)
    Fire SLOWS the Tank (like in Left 4 Dead Versus) (but a flaming tank can catch you if you're under 40 health)

    Tank burn-to-death timers:
    Difficulty - Time to Death (no gunfire)

    Easy - 65 seconds
    Normal - 70 seconds
    Advanced - 75 seconds
    Expert - 85 seconds


    Waiting for the Tank to burn out is no longer an option.

    Pipe Bombs, Oxygen Tanks, Propane Tanks stumble but
    DO NOT HURT TANK AT ALL


    --------------------------------------------------

    General Strength of Tanks (measured against normal difficulty)
    Difficulty - Sniper Rifle Shots to Kill (Military or Hunting)

    Easy - 34 shots (75% Normal)
    Normal - 45 shots (100% Normal)
    Advanced - 89 shots (200% Normal)
    Expert - 89 shots (200% Normal)

    Headshots did no extra damage (one trial - maybe saved 1 bullet)

    --------------------------------------------------

    Witch Kills

    4 Mellee Weapon strikes
    12 Sniper Rifle hits (1st shot in head stuns)
    (safest kill is now military sniper rifle from a long distance)
    1 shotgun shell down through head into torso
    2 shotgun shells into upper back
    3 shotgun shells if you mess up
    Once startled, witch is sometimes immune to frontal attacks

    ---------------------------------------------------

    Pistol Shots to Kill Following

    Shooting at Head/Front torso/Back torso/Calf/Arm

    Easy Common Infected 1/1/1/1/1
    Normal Common Infected 1//2/2/2/2
    Advanced Common Infected 1//2/2/2/2
    Expert Common Infected 1/3/3/3/3
    Expert Boomer 1/2/2/3/2
    Expert Spitter 1/3/3/immune*/3 (*lower legs do not register hits)
    Expert Smoker 2/6/6/10/8
    Expert Hunter 2/6/6-7/10/8
    Expert Jockey 10/11*/10/10/10 (*to shoot torso, had to put him on a rooftop)
    Expert Charger 5/18/17/18/17* (*most hits to smaller arm do not register)

    ---------------------------------------------------
    Mostly measured in L4D2 Demo, on afternoon of Nov 3/2009
    x
    Last edited by Avs; 12-31-2009 at 04:30 PM.


  2. #2
    Reaperassault's Avatar
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    Re: INFO: Weapon Damage (mostly to Tanks)

    jockey is a tough SOB, good info

    Reapator, overlord of ponies



  3. #3
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    Re: INFO: Weapon Damage (mostly to Tanks)

    Ya what I thought - Jockey has no Headshot modifier so you have to get down those 325 HP all by yourself. Poor Hunter... has to stay on top not moving and easily heatshotable



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  5. #4
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    Re: INFO: Weapon Damage (mostly to Tanks)

    It does seem like the Jockey's head fused with his body.




    "Certainly, being bombarded with 105 millimeter shells is bad. But the knowledge that your armed your enemy thus, with your sloth and your ineptitude, unfolds in the heart like a poison." Tycho from Penny Arcade in reference to the nuke in MW2

    yo Twilight. im real happy for you and imma let you finish but i just want to say that The Lord Of The Rings was the best book-movie series of all time! - A guy off of one of the forums I frequent.


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    Re: INFO: Weapon Damage (mostly to Tanks)

    FYI, the tanks speed is unchanged whether he is on fire or not. The tank and survivors speed factor is "210" (any survivor 40 or above health moves at that speed). Bullets hitting the tank fired within 200-400 valve units (16 valve units=1 foot) slow him down, otherwise they have no effect to his movement rate.

    I personally feel the tanks speed while burning should be set at 260 (survivors on adren move at 250) but his "time to death" should be lowered from 75 to say 45, that way lighting the tank on fire is a choice, not something you do automatically without thinking.


  7. #6
    Avs
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    Re: INFO: Weapon Damage (mostly to Tanks)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morganan View Post
    FYI, the tanks speed is unchanged whether he is on fire or not. The tank and survivors speed factor is "210" (any survivor 40 or above health moves at that speed). Bullets hitting the tank fired within 200-400 valve units (16 valve units=1 foot) slow him down, otherwise they have no effect to his movement rate.

    I personally feel the tanks speed while burning should be set at 260 (survivors on adren move at 250) but his "time to death" should be lowered from 75 to say 45, that way lighting the tank on fire is a choice, not something you do automatically without thinking.
    A interesting concept. Today's L4D2 tanks are handicapped when on fire. Given that their HP is not high enough to withstand the new guns under sustained fire, most tanks are defensive instead of offensive. Fire also rips tanks apart these days, and fire bullets deal a lot of damage even if you hit him with a few to set him on fire (or just 1).

    260 is pretty damn fast for a on fire tank, but I guess you factor in shooting and the speed is similar. Still, a tank that moves this fast will probably be able to deal a lot of damage, unless the fire burns him out sooner due to the 45 seconds.

    I would rather opt for a stronger, buffer tank, in which unloading on him with everything you got makes more sense than to put strategy into it. As it stands, 2 people with autoshotties destroys tanks with one single close range volley. AK47s make tanks pretty dead at range.



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  9. #7
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    Re: INFO: Weapon Damage (mostly to Tanks)

    Also, FYI, I tried using a chainsaw on the tank on Advanced yesterday. (Two times, I got a chance to do so.)

    It works alright, but if he isn't busy you're going to be meat quickly. If he's busy chasing one of your own, or you're close to him when he's throwing a rock, rev it up give him a licking and then turn tail quick.


  10. #8

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    Re: INFO: Weapon Damage (mostly to Tanks)

    Quote Originally Posted by Avs View Post
    A interesting concept. Today's L4D2 tanks are handicapped when on fire. Given that their HP is not high enough to withstand the new guns under sustained fire, most tanks are defensive instead of offensive. Fire also rips tanks apart these days, and fire bullets deal a lot of damage even if you hit him with a few to set him on fire (or just 1).

    260 is pretty damn fast for a on fire tank, but I guess you factor in shooting and the speed is similar. Still, a tank that moves this fast will probably be able to deal a lot of damage, unless the fire burns him out sooner due to the 45 seconds.

    I would rather opt for a stronger, buffer tank, in which unloading on him with everything you got makes more sense than to put strategy into it. As it stands, 2 people with autoshotties destroys tanks with one single close range volley. AK47s make tanks pretty dead at range.
    The way the on fire damage works is it does (6000/75)=80 "free dps" fire does to the tank while lit. Actually lowering the number to 45 means fire does 133.33 "free dps" which really isn't what any change should be going to. Maybe the change I suggested isn't the best one, but the concept behind it is sound imo. If the survivors stop lighting the tank on fire, he would never gain that speed increase. Maybe increasing his frustration timer so you can use some tactics with the tank is a better answer.

    Back in l4d1 I messed with these settings on the server I use, one time I set the time to death from fire to 750, which means fire did 8 dps to the tank. Hardly anyone noticed the change, and those who did didn't think it was "terrible". The next time I changed the tanks runs speed while on fire to 250 (what was campaign level back then), everyone noticed that change right away and 3/4 people hated it. Interestingly enough the only people who didn't hate that change were the ones who adapted to it and stopped throwing a molly then running backwards and instead actually fought the tank.

    Removing the 300% damage bonus the grenade launcher gets vs. tanks is probably a good starting place, but ya, ak's rip apart a tank at range, and the shotties rip him apart up close, hell, even the 2 T1 sub-machine guns do heavy damage to a tank at short ranges. That on top of the fire damage is just way to much for the tank to take.

    Is it just me who notices the tank is more effective on HR 3-5 and SF 1-3 then most other maps, a.k.a. the maps where he can put himself out when lit on fire? That's what leads me to believe that is the proper change to make, either nerf the effect fire has on him, or make him more formidable when on fire.


  11. #9
    Avs
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    Re: INFO: Weapon Damage (mostly to Tanks)

    I think fire should still factor into the gameplay, but not be so effective as to force the tank to chase after running survivors and get cut down in the process. Fire should still do some DPS, but it should be more of a bonus dps, rather than a tank is going to die anyways dps. I think all teams should hunt the tanks for obvious reasons, but I also don't want to force them to do so with a huge speed increase. Part of tanking is to coordinate with the other infected to make something happen. In anycase, all the variables are there at our disposal, but before we make changes, we'll have to see if tanks are getting steamrolled or not.



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  13. #10
    Avs
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    Re: INFO: Weapon Damage (mostly to Tanks)

    Updated with a more friendly weapon damage chart for tanks.


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    Re: INFO: Weapon Damage (mostly to Tanks)

    As the chart clearly shows, fire is the least effective weapon from a pure dps standpoint against the tank, but is clearly the difference maker against a tank as well as it puts a death timer on him. You could triple the burn time until death and it wouldn't do anything negative to the survivors other then place a sense of urgency to them to kill the tank.

    It's almost a month later, and new impressions about the tanks effectiveness?


  15. #12
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    Re: INFO: Weapon Damage (mostly to Tanks)

    Melee weapons kill tank so fast its not even funny. We had a tank who couldn't prime hes target and ended up getting beat up in seconds by two guys whacking melee at hes back. Many people tend to get scared by the control meter and waste the tank, ignoring the fact that by holding back you force the survivors to stand still, or do something stupid.



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  17. #13
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    Re: INFO: Weapon Damage (mostly to Tanks)

    The tonfa can kill in 6 seconds. The chainsaw kills in 8.




    LOL, WUT?


  18. #14
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    Re: INFO: Weapon Damage (mostly to Tanks)

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestial1 View Post
    The tonfa can kill in 6 seconds. The chainsaw kills in 8.




    LOL, WUT?
    My thoughts exactly. I thought the tonfa sucked, I guess not.




    "Certainly, being bombarded with 105 millimeter shells is bad. But the knowledge that your armed your enemy thus, with your sloth and your ineptitude, unfolds in the heart like a poison." Tycho from Penny Arcade in reference to the nuke in MW2

    yo Twilight. im real happy for you and imma let you finish but i just want to say that The Lord Of The Rings was the best book-movie series of all time! - A guy off of one of the forums I frequent.


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    Re: INFO: Weapon Damage (mostly to Tanks)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mech__Warrior View Post
    My thoughts exactly. I thought the tonfa sucked, I guess not.
    The "re-fire speed" on the swing and the ray path's/swing are what makes the weapons good or bad. All the weapons are interchangeable really with the exception of the chain saw as that one works differently then the other melee weapons.



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