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11-21-2008, 04:27 PM #16
Re: L4D TG SOPs?
I'd definitely like to say I don't want to see an overabundance of rules (some mentioned already that made me cringe are no dead people talking, having to assign pointman / rearguard, etc). Different groups are going to play it different ways, and sure we want to stick to the primer and avoid exploits and hacks and what have you, but the fact that we are playing in at most 4 person teams makes admining many of these rules all but impossible.
I'd like to speak specifically to the "no dead info" -- this isn't a rule in BF games, to the best of my knowledge. At least I've never heard of it if it is and I commonly shout things to my squaddies warning them of whatever just laid waste to me, and my squaddies do the same. Why? Because the in-game VoIP allows it. Well, the in-game VoIP allows us to communicate with the rest of our team when dead in L4D. If we're going for realism here, should we make a rule on not letting dead people out of spawn rooms because it's not realistic? If dead people can't talk, they sure shouldn't be allowed to come back to life mysteriously trapped in a room a few hundred feet away from their fresh corpse. What about if multiple party members are dead and the team lets one out at a time from the same room? Where did they come from? How did they get there? Why are these rooms creating people? Sure it doesn't make sense, and isn't realistic, but it's part of the game mechanics.
When I've been playing, and am dead, I'm usually looking behind a player to be ready to warn them if I see something coming up behind them. If it helps, think of it as heightened awareness due to just seeing a friend of yours get ripped apart by zombies?
I'll be honest here, mostly because I know I'm not alone. The main reason I stopped playing CoD4 was due to what I saw as an over-regulation of the server. I believe that our rules should foster teamwork and communication, not to encompass every possible situation where things might not be realistic and restrict a players abilities. When I first logged onto the TG 2142 server and the first two things I read said "You must join a squad" and "You must follow SL + CO orders" I was hooked. I've hardly played on any other server, I've become a SM and joined an IHS. This type of rule, to me, epitomizes why TG is appealing.
In Left4Dead, it is a quite unique style of gameplay. How many other online 4-player (or low-player) co-op games are there? Any? How many does TG support? I think we have to give it time to come into its own, see what people are up to, and most importantly encourage experimentation. Let's not get locked in to a certain way of doing things just because that's how it has been done before.
We are going to need some rules in place, clearly. But let's start small. Maybe things like "No intentional friendly fire" (but even that is up in the air -- what about when you want to blow off steam in the safe room and the rest of your team does, too?) or "Do not lone-wolf" (but then what about people who get lost? Or scared? Or run away from something mean and ugly and get turned around?)
One thing that has struck me as remarkable about Left 4 Dead is the way it requires a group of people to work as a team. If you go off by yourself, all it takes is one hunter, boomer, smoker, tank or random horde (any of which occur about once every 40 seconds) and you are dead and out. You literally can not lone wolf in this game and get anywhere. So far as rules regarding comms ago -- try playing without them! If I join a random game and am the only one with a mic, I'm out. Not worth my time. A good chunk of what I view as the beauty of Left 4 Dead comes from the fact that it already seems to embody much of what we as TG stand for. Let's not let a desire for regulation and order obstruct that.
Edit to add: Whiskey's post was written while I was written mine, I'd like to say that the examples he gives are the ideas I personally would like to see.
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11-21-2008, 05:26 PM #17
Re: L4D TG SOPs?
My opinions are:
Allowing the dead to talk just ruins teamwork for me. Yes the teamwork is when the stakes get really high you will see the other 3 or even better yet 2 players really get a pattern going that allows them to save you on there own. I don't understand why you would want to take that away from them. Your dead. Hit "u" ingame to chat dead
Alot of games allow things that don't make sense. Thats why you make rules to keep it tactical. This community is mature gaming we will disscuss like we are now to get everyones opinion.
We are survivors, maybe we can ask Valve to change our model and names everytime we get saved if thats what you want. The way I see it when you get saved your a lone person or persons low on health being saved by a stronger group.
Having a leader and comms you can have any formation you see fit.
I find TG appealing because we try to play the games not just with teamwork but realistic factors. As far as 30 clown zombies coming out of a 5' by 5' closet, (True story by the way it was crazy and was the first time I seen it last night
the video games have come along way and still have a long way togo to get for zombies coming out of every part of the map like they should. This game is doing something new and there is gonna be one better in the future.
Yes pretty much we all have our opinions and the game will have to grow into them like you said.
If theres only 4 players in the server and all 4 want to cuss, shoot eachother, spray porn, killhunt. Whats the problem? Thats called a public server. I don't see a problem with it but if there is 1 person in there that doesn't like it he has the right to shut that kind of behavior down. If thats part of the rules that is. Some of this stuff is just comon sense.
Last thing if you have someone going off way ahead of the group all the time and is not leading the team what good is his play if hes dying all the time. I don't want to group with anyone like that. If he's leader I can respect his speed and keep up. Thats me trying to help him keep the team together to win. Win lose or draw.
These are my opinions. And how I like to play it. Don't take this wrong my opinions I'm sure sound bad to you. Now lets go kill some zombie clowns
FUN FUN
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11-21-2008, 06:10 PM #18
Re: L4D TG SOPs?
I have mixed feelings about rules for Left4Dead, obviously the basic primer is always gonna be into play but requiring a person to heal below x% health and stuff screams to me directions not tactics.
I think instead it should just be that survivors need to not rush out of the safe room but instead plan, likewise the zombies should spawn as a group and coordinate their attacks. Staying with the group is a basic necessity. Also how about not leaving anyone to die.
Electing a leader would be problematic in my opinion, since there's only four of you there doesn't really need to be a leader, but everyone needs to be ready to communicate at any time because they're being attacked, they see a boss infected, etc. Having a leader giving orders might get in the way of this and kinda takes away that panicking feeling that this game demands.
Finale's should also be taken slowly, slowed down and planned. It's nice to take the time to set up gasoline tanks in anticipation of the eventual tank
Encounters should be agreed upon by all team mates, like whether to attack a witch or not.
Again if someone wants to take charge that's fine, but requiring it might inspire one person barking orders while everyone is in a panic. It's not like Counter Strike which can be taken at a much slower pace. If teams aren't moving fast they're likely to end up dead and players need to be on an equal communication level.

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11-21-2008, 06:55 PM #19
Re: L4D TG SOPs?
Keep in mind the difference between Rules and Standard Operating Procedures. Some posts are wandering into rules territory here. SOP's are suggestions... it's putting down in writing how we play - they set expectations and help new folks quickly learn how we roll. Most SOP's are common sense and second nature to many of us: sitreps, fire discipline, playing your role, etc... But then there are game-specific things too that we probably want to put in place...
Rules = how to not get banned
SOP's = "how to not be an annoying noob"
|TG-12th|WhiskeySix
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11-21-2008, 08:10 PM #20
Re: L4D TG SOPs?
Aren't we over thinking it? It isn't really hard to put the sop's together. Here you go...
1. Stay together
2. Communicate
3. Do not get in each other's way
4. Watch the friendly fire.
5. Have fun.
6. Don't stare at the xrays.(9th joke)
7. Beware of stitch in the airport. (9th joke)
See? Easy!Without darkness, how could we measure the light?

**FORMER*** 9th Mobile Infantry Detachment - Spearheads -- BY ANY MEANS --
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11-21-2008, 08:52 PM #21
Re: L4D TG SOPs?
I am in agreement with Whiskey, let's wait before making suggestions for rules and/or SOPs.




TG Primer - BF2142 Server Rules - Code of Conduct
Contact a Game Admin
"..good sportsmanship shouldn't be sacrificed in the name of teamwork. " --WhiskeySix
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11-21-2008, 10:33 PM #22
Re: L4D TG SOPs?
Well I don't personally like the idea of an SOP on healing your teammate at X% health. I think that takes out some of the flexibility. I understand SOPs but I don't like the idea if I'm saving a health pack for when someone's goes down it's expected of me that I have to spend it on my team mate right away. If they ask though I can explain my reasoning behind it but I don't like the pressure of everyone thinking down on me even though I have a good reason to save it.


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11-22-2008, 04:18 PM #23
Re: L4D TG SOPs?
Maybe not SOPs, but strong suggestions.
Don't cross in front of other players, because they will accidentally shoot you.
Don't shoot wildly in close quarters, because your bullets will penetrate walls and hurt other players
Don't spray wildly with the shotgun, because you will hit other players
If you're up front, Duck, and stay ducked, and don't stand up abruptly.
Warn people when you're stepping through a doorway or moving in front of them.
... You might guess I've been having some friendly fire issues with the pubbies.
Somone else pointed out that the game is sort of self regulating. If you go off on your own you get eaten. If you wake up the witch you get eaten. If you try to solo a tank you get eaten. Actually, if you do everything right you still get eaten, but my point is that unless you're on the ball and working together you'll get eaten much sooner. The game selects for people who are willing to cooperate
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11-23-2008, 04:55 AM #24
Re: L4D TG SOPs?
Maybe a Guideline and Tip sheet would be nice, a way to get newbies up to speed with basic tactics specific to the game, but naming it an SOP would just plain be a mistake in my opinion, simply for the fact that SOPs are usually enforced with a kick from the server.


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11-23-2008, 10:59 AM #25
Re: L4D TG SOPs?
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11-23-2008, 12:02 PM #26
Re: L4D TG SOPs?
Talking while dead doesn't seem all that damaging to the game experience. Actually, come to think of it, It sort of maintains the coop element by letting the dead player continue to support the team, offer encouragement and warnings, and cheer that last guy one while he tries to beat the Tank to death with an empty 1911 and a safety razor.
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11-23-2008, 02:11 PM #27
Re: L4D TG SOPs?
Just as long as the dead guy isn't an annoying back seat driver, I don't have a problem with it.




TG Primer - BF2142 Server Rules - Code of Conduct
Contact a Game Admin
"..good sportsmanship shouldn't be sacrificed in the name of teamwork. " --WhiskeySix
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11-23-2008, 06:17 PM #28
Re: L4D TG SOPs?
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11-23-2008, 07:48 PM #29
Re: L4D TG SOPs?
Dead Talk is imperative for the Boss Infected, you're choosing where to spawn, when to spawn and more, coordinating your combined effort before you even start controlling your infected boss.
I can understand the rule against the survivors but again given the nature of the respawn system, you still need to support your teammates to even get to a point where you can respawn. The only time I've ever heard Dead Talk used for a tactical advantage is when it's the last one or two players against a tank, it's a pretty compromising situation and given it's usually the finale means no one's gonna respawn. The game's essentially over for them unless they get to guide their last remaining team mates to victory.

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11-23-2008, 08:19 PM #30
Re: L4D TG SOPs?
Why not just call it Basic Survivor Tactics? This way it doesn't have the feel of a rule like SOP's tend to feel like and most of the suggestions in this thread seem to fall under basic tactics. Things you can do aren't obligated to do.
Just list all your tips and tricks to survive like avoiding friendly fire and how to survive a hoard rush or taking down a tank. Also the other things like picking a group leader, select a point man to lead you thru, healing team mates at a certain percentage would fall under this too.
As far as not talking when you dead. Things like that should probably be worked out with the individual group before hand.Ikariam Wars = Talus - Sulfur, Talanium - Marble, Talopolis - Wine, Talusgrad - Crystal, Talusberg - Wine.
For the Four who stood against many. You shall be remembered. {DK_Sparta vs Talus}

"I was never much a fan to playing anything online without having to manage my own private server. The Internet Gaming community has evolved to catter to the lowest common denominator and practically ruined my desire to have any part of it. But not here. It is something wonderfully different." - frozenchrome
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