A Motion Re: No Mercy Finale

**Pokerface** · 12-23-2008, 02:24 AM

I'd like TG to consider -- either through administration or (better) an agreement between persons -- the declaration of the wire ramp leading to the helipad in the No Mercy finale as "cheesy" and possibly "exploitative".

Backing into a closet is one thing, but there are a lot of ways that ramp holdout spot SHOULD be able to be broken, and none of them work. Not even ramming a tank right up the gullet.

Morganan · 12-23-2008, 02:49 AM

For whatever my $.02 is worth, I would agree it's defintely "cheesy" and should be avoided in vs. mode, I don't know if I would call it "exploitative". My squad does it when we scrim on that map and play survivors first, as I would hate to not do it while the other side does, but I know I would prefer not to.

I would wait for the next patch and see what Valve does about it, then base my judgement off that as I know they are aware of the issue and I would rather see how they want to handle it. Hell, email gabeN@valve.com and ask the head cheese if they are planning on addressing the ramp defense on no mercy 05 in vs. mode or if they think it's fine as it stands? They typically do answer their mail if you write something that's professional and worth responding to.

**peardog** · 12-23-2008, 10:19 AM

I was in a Pub game the other night where the survivors moved under the ramp and one of them stated it was "Lame" to do that... so during the onslaught we (Zombies) attempted the "dissenter" TK'd the entire team from within the RAMP.... Policing their own eh?

I have heard several vocal calls from team members to NOT do the Closet or the RAMP and I think with enough peer pressure we will start to see less of this.

I want a New SMOKER power.. ACID Breath... or give the Boomer Vomit the power to dissolve Dry Wall after 30 secs or so... That will clean up the closet issues also..

**DrBeat** · 12-23-2008, 11:10 AM

I agree. There are quite a few similar ramps in the game. In versus, most of the closets are removed though.

Spyder · 12-23-2008, 12:17 PM

Versus is filled with such spots, part of the reason that it has lost a lot of it's luster for me. Too many games (not necessarily w/TG) devolve into sprinting from spot to spot, using locations like the elevator closet, or the Pipe in the corner of NM02, etc.

'Tis why I'd much rather play coop. It's more Funner

**Boot** · 12-26-2008, 11:02 PM

In the context of this game I don't have problems with it. It's a movie, and how many horror movies have we all watched where we were screaming tactical advice to the characters? I agree it may be cheesy, but I figure the survivors are supposed to survive.

**DrBeat** · 12-26-2008, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boot

In the context of this game I don't have problems with it. It's a movie, and how many horror movies have we all watched where we were screaming tactical advice to the characters? I agree it may be cheesy, but I figure the survivors are supposed to survive.

You can definatly argue that for co-op, though it feels almost like cheating though. But for versus where closets are removed, once the survivors are there it is almost over. You need extreme coordination on the part of the infected even with the tank to deal damage.

**Razcsak** · 12-26-2008, 11:43 PM

Aye, I'd definitely like to see that wire ramp modified and/or removed. So far, every vs game I've played has been pretty good about defending the rooftop itself and only moving to kite the tanks, and its been fun. I can't see it being fun for either team to just sit there.

Hell, I feel a bit the same way towards that closet on NM3, though its not so bad because its not exactly the finale of the whole "movie."

**Pokerface** · 12-27-2008, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razcsak

Aye, I'd definitely like to see that wire ramp modified and/or removed. So far, every vs game I've played has been pretty good about defending the rooftop itself and only moving to kite the tanks, and its been fun. I can't see it being fun for either team to just sit there.

Hell, I feel a bit the same way towards that closet on NM3, though its not so bad because its not exactly the finale of the whole "movie."

Nor is it impossible to deal with. I've seen plenty happen on that last walk to the elevator, including poor Zoey getting trapped in the doors by a smoker and then dying as the elevator went up.

THAT is a movie-style move, friends.

jex · 12-27-2008, 12:21 PM

I'm not sure how legitimate it is to argue against using a tactic that works (for closets). Using an exploit that means the zombies can't get to you isn't fair play and offers no challenge.

I'm not sure how you'd reconcile what are "acceptable" tactics and what aren't.

**Pokerface** · 12-27-2008, 03:43 PM

I reconcile it like this:

A closet has one method of entrance/egress, and is walled on all other sides. While you CAN shoot through the walls of a closet at zombies that can't touch you, you're shooting blind. The tactical advantage is that the survivors must cover a smaller area: the smaller the chokepoint, the easier it is to whomp the enemy.

That ramp has one entrance yet is open on most sides (including up). Defending the area is no longer about minimizing the area that the team needs to cover; it's making the whole team (by and large) untouchable through a combination of position and ability to see from that position.

**DrBeat** · 12-27-2008, 03:57 PM

For me, it's not an issue of the ramp. It's the issue that zombies can't reach though the bars to damage you. If that was possible I'd be perfectly fine with it, or if the supports were breakable or something to that degree.

**gunjunkie** · 12-27-2008, 04:06 PM

I see the ramp as a bug, and hopefully Valve will fix it. I would. Don't have a problem with the closets though. That just seems like good tactical sense. As mentioned, a lot can happen on the way to the elevator from the closet.

ikonic · 12-27-2008, 09:36 PM

If a tank smashes the players to the very rear of the ramp, they will die instantly. Having a Boomer camped at the end of the ramp to puke on them at this time works out well too. Also, they have to get to the chopper, so you have opportunities as they make a run for it.

Yes, the ramp is cheesy, but definitely not an exploit and there are ways of defeating the survivors. Everyone just has to know what to do as Infected

**Razcsak** · 12-27-2008, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikonic

If a tank smashes the players to the very rear of the ramp, they will die instantly.

In the two times I've seen this done, I've never, ever seen a tank survive to hit anyone. The autoshotguns always tore it apart.