Left4Dead 2? - Page 5

**DrBeat** · 06-07-2009, 11:46 AM

TF2 would not be as nearly as popular as today if Valve hadn't continued to update it. I will probably like this game, but my question would be: do I need to count on spending $50 a year on a new L4D game? I expected a squeal, but this early? Besides, knowing Valve there is no way this will be released on time.

FL1Pmode · 06-07-2009, 06:05 PM

I am still hopeful that L4D owners will get a discount. That would alone make me get L4D 2.

**[tR]Greasy_mullet** · 06-07-2009, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBeat

TF2 would not be as nearly as popular as today if Valve hadn't continued to update it. I will probably like this game, but my question would be: do I need to count on spending $50 a year on a new L4D game? I expected a squeal, but this early? Besides, knowing Valve there is no way this will be released on time.

Right on with the updates. I hated the demo and did not bother to get the game until it went on sale for half off. Even now it feels incomplete but I do enjoy playing it from time to time.

MbP_01 · 06-07-2009, 08:02 PM

With Avs on this one and will sacrafice a few weeks of eating at Chipotle and dollar menu it at Taco Bell......if it really ends up stinking up the joint, SDK (HOPES) will be out and we can custom it back up on L4D1.

On a side note, from the vid posted from gametrailers, obviously that was Kizzer FF'ing his own teammates! (totally kidding kizz hahaha)

-Badger

**Kebab-Kastike** · 06-08-2009, 07:57 AM

I must say, with all the weapons and characters they should've made it DLC. I wouldn't have minded paying something like 10$ for the new content, but new game?!
TF2 is four times the game it was back when it was released, why L4D shouldn't be.

They say they haven't forgot about L4D, but I must wonder, who'll play the original version when there's new one out. Gabe has said that L4D2 could include the original campaigns from L4D.

EDIT: http://steamunpowered.eu/page.php?id=110

**tHa_KhAn** · 06-08-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morganan

"Crescendo skipping" is for example nm-3 where a team will activate the lift, but stay down below it in the corner for example until the event ends. Those types of things are issues that need to be addressed for the games longevity, Valve has said so themselves. It gets old real quick when you face a good team that uses tactics like those, they are next to impossible to beat.

I don't see this as an issue. Most people have defeated the levels, so if you are replaying for enjoyment, either get new players or just enjoy the extra horde by yourself. Maybe, I'm missing something, but if you just sit around and avoid zombies it defeats the purpose of playing a title like this.

Morganan · 06-08-2009, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tHa_KhAn

I don't see this as an issue. Most people have defeated the levels, so if you are replaying for enjoyment, either get new players or just enjoy the extra horde by yourself. Maybe, I'm missing something, but if you just sit around and avoid zombies it defeats the purpose of playing a title like this.

I'm talking vs. mode for the events. Nm-3 is a big offender, that is the most pathetically simple event if you just sit in the corner behind the lift. This is one of the big reasons why they are changing the crescendo events to be a more gauntlet type system. They want people to suffer through the difficulty of having to move while a horde is coming. I'm totally fine with that, but aren't they in essence saying "screw l4d1" when they admit it's an issue, and say they have it fixed in a game they want you to pay 50 more dollars for? That's what I'm not fine with. Where does the circle end? What happens if they fix known gameplay issues from l4d2 in l4d3 for another 50 bucks? This reeks of Crytek where they said "we're done patching crysis, we know there are a lot of bugs and issues, but if you purchase crysis wars for another 30 bucks, we promise to have them all fixed there!"

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/L4D2boycott almost 18k members to that group in under a week

**tHa_KhAn** · 06-08-2009, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morganan

I'm talking vs. mode for the events. Nm-3 is a big offender, that is the most pathetically simple event if you just sit in the corner behind the lift. This is one of the big reasons why they are changing the crescendo events to be a more gauntlet type system. They want people to suffer through the difficulty of having to move while a horde is coming. I'm totally fine with that, but aren't they in essence saying "screw l4d1" when they admit it's an issue, and say they have it fixed in a game they want you to pay 50 more dollars for? That's what I'm not fine with. Where does the circle end? What happens if they fix known gameplay issues from l4d2 in l4d3 for another 50 bucks? This reeks of Crytek where they said "we're done patching crysis, we know there are a lot of bugs and issues, but if you purchase crysis wars for another 30 bucks, we promise to have them all fixed there!"

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/L4D2boycott almost 18k members to that group in under a week

I still see this as more of a "who" you play with issue versus a technical bug( due to number of players involved) that must be corrected for you to get value out of the game. I think this is a bigger issue than just L4D. Never having left console gaming since the original NES, Xbox Live was the first time I received an update for a console game. However, during my PC gaming I often received updates. So is the problem PC gamers have purchased "finished" products and expect free updates because they found issues with the game that did not present themselves in the demo? When you traditional purchased a console title, that's all you got. Maybe the games were more polished and maybe they weren't. Again, you traditional had to play with people in the same room with consoles versus PC gaming which kept exploits and glitching down. I have some things I'd like to see in many games, Frontlines being a prime example of a game I purchased with hopes of corrections. The only reason I'm actually upset about FFOW is that they fixed some of the bugs of the PC demo in the Xbox demo and I assumed they would get it fixed by release. So I've gone back to expecting nothing more than I see in the demo.

I guess my point is that I played the demo of L4D, showed it to some friends, we all purchased on the release and have played it since then. I in no way feel owed anything from Valve as the game works just like I expected. Any updates are just considered a bonus.

**Exploding_Silver** · 06-08-2009, 03:11 PM

For me, I have decided to get L4D 2 and I will enjoy it
However my previous admiration for Valve as a dev company has gone

also it makes me laugh that the valve produced product "steam" is the medium for the bad publicity against them, with the boycott group

**UnDeaD77** · 06-08-2009, 03:30 PM

Valve says LFD2 is to big to be DLC.

Morganan · 06-08-2009, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tHa_KhAn

I still see this as more of a "who" you play with issue versus a technical bug( due to number of players involved) that must be corrected for you to get value out of the game. I think this is a bigger issue than just L4D. Never having left console gaming since the original NES, Xbox Live was the first time I received an update for a console game. However, during my PC gaming I often received updates. So is the problem PC gamers have purchased "finished" products and expect free updates because they found issues with the game that did not present themselves in the demo? When you traditional purchased a console title, that's all you got. Maybe the games were more polished and maybe they weren't. Again, you traditional had to play with people in the same room with consoles versus PC gaming which kept exploits and glitching down. I have some things I'd like to see in many games, Frontlines being a prime example of a game I purchased with hopes of corrections. The only reason I'm actually upset about FFOW is that they fixed some of the bugs of the PC demo in the Xbox demo and I assumed they would get it fixed by release. So I've gone back to expecting nothing more than I see in the demo.

I guess my point is that I played the demo of L4D, showed it to some friends, we all purchased on the release and have played it since then. I in no way feel owed anything from Valve as the game works just like I expected. Any updates are just considered a bonus.

I dont disagree with anything you are saying, other then to say Valve has sprouted for years how they dont do things like that. They patch their games with new content to keep it growing because they have sworn up and down that it gives them sales spikes. I remember an interview where valve said they have gotten more sales of tf2 on the pc with all these updates and new content then they had originally with the product.

If valve wants to get away from that philosophy, that's fine, but say that. They have always touted their great ties with their community. Remember when hl2's code was stolen? They asked the community to help them catch the theif. They've always sworn their special relationship with their customers was how they wanted to make money, not by taking the almost Maddenesque route of milking customers. That was what those "other companies" did that Valve openly laughed at.

If they want to go that route, that's fine, but they have some crow to eat first.

**Avs** · 06-08-2009, 11:45 PM

Maybe this is a big marketing scheme. Valve makes themselves look greedy but then push back L4D2 and releases some of the content into L4D1 making L4D1.5? Then HL3 comes out in December instead of L4D2 and then L4D2 comes out in March 2010? Just kidding.

But what has been said here is the same stuff you'll find everywhere regarding L$D2. If L$D2 takes a lot of what made TF2 easier to get into, then I think just those simple mechanics will make a big difference rather than extra content in more campaigns (not saying I would be against more stuff in L4D...we're always looking for more bang for the buck these days). What kind of mechanics? Like simply loading up the game faster, so you can join a lobby faster, which doesnt take ages to setup, which results in more games quicker, with shorter games so its easier for people to psychologically believe they've fulfilled their entertainment by playing full rounds, and make it easier for you get get friends together (like match making with 4 friends), or other so crazy ideas.

Oh who am I kidding, Valve just needs the money so they can make a MMO to compete with Blizzard.

**Reaperassault** · 06-09-2009, 02:10 AM

lol

I'm sure I'll enjoy this when it comes out

Morganan · 06-09-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avs

But what has been said here is the same stuff you'll find everywhere regarding L$D2. If L$D2 takes a lot of what made TF2 easier to get into, then I think just those simple mechanics will make a big difference rather than extra content in more campaigns (not saying I would be against more stuff in L4D...we're always looking for more bang for the buck these days). What kind of mechanics? Like simply loading up the game faster, so you can join a lobby faster, which doesnt take ages to setup, which results in more games quicker, with shorter games so its easier for people to psychologically believe they've fulfilled their entertainment by playing full rounds, and make it easier for you get get friends together (like match making with 4 friends), or other so crazy ideas.

This is the only content valve is going to give l$d1 anymore.

**Avs** · 06-10-2009, 06:39 PM

And if you havent noticed the change in player population per game recently:

66,546 98,816 Counter-Strike: Source
56,244 77,149 Counter-Strike
25,041 29,721 Team Fortress 2
22,228 27,633 Football Manager 2009
16,427 18,749 Left 4 Dead

After TF2's big update, L4D got knocked down from 3rd place (which it held for ~ 6 months) to 5th. All I have to say is FOOOOOOTBOOOLLLL!!