SkidMark

CURSE THE EVIL BATTLEFIELD 2 !!!!!!

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p3lvi5

Big Map isn't necessarily the problem, the maps most glaring and obvious flaw is that it has an asinine system of routes. There's no intricacy, no subtlety, no strategy. How can there be? There are only 4 routes which go directly to the house, two melding into one the closer you get to the house. Does the fun ever start!? :p

God...God almighty strike this map down and replace it with...anything but harvest2

Root

I see hostages get rescued all the time at TG.

Yes the house could be bigger. If someone were to take the house from cs_retreat and put it into harvest, it would make for better defending potential. Likewise, if someone would edit harvest and put a slope from CT spawn to where the RP currently is, then move the RP barn back to CT spawn. If anyone wants to contribute to the TG CS community like this, then I'll happily add their version of the map to the server for us to try. Supporting TG isn't just about $8.95 a month. You can support with the skills you have as well.

Seph to suggest I got owned by Kark is as silly as suggesting that Kark understands the arguement I was making. Of course dust 1 will fill the server - its a fragmonkey map. My point was made to counter a claim that custom maps can't be used to teach PCS.

Root

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AzzMan

Oh dear JESUS CHRIST OWNED

Karkianman101

OMG I DIDNT REALISE :P

MY point however was that cs_harvest lacks PCS value (comparing it to dust), seeing as the T's have to be stupid to not die before the hosties are tagged. The only way for the CT's to get the hosties is basically to kill all the T's, unless the T's are TRYING not to do their job, whereas on other maps like office, italy, militia, and havana T's have to work HARD to keep all the hosties, and seeing them rescued isnt infrequant.

You yourself have said that Dust can have some great PCS games, but tends not to. Harvest CAN have some great PCS games, but it tends not to.

To be fair though, whenever I play and make it to the back of the house, I can often tag the hosties through the window and at least get them all in one room before I die.

Vulcan

In Italy the hossies rarely ever make it out of the house without the round being over, unless you have some people not playing to their objective.

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Karkianman101

Funny story. Somniloquist used to be a semi regular here. Anyway, one time it was me and 1 other T watching the house, and just Som. I was on top of the balconey, and the other T was at the stairs window. Somniloquist creeped up long hall, under the balconey, inside, tagged the hostages (didnt shoot me or the other T), and creeped back to spawn. Right under our noses.

Anyway, I haven't seen italy in months. But the point is that its still possible.

Ferret

Personally, I like this map. It's one of my top three favorites, actually (Italy, Militia, Harvest). I've never seen both set of hostages rescued on this map, but I've once managed to rescue one set. The hostages always seem to get stuck running around the map. I'd imagine that's something that could be worked on, though.

As a CT (I've only played a few times as a T) I can tell you I've played many chaotic games on this map and many good games. The good games were a result of everyone, emphasis on everyone on the CT side communicating. One of the keys to this map, as it's heavily aimed towards snipers, is to purchase smoke grenades.

I find it effective to smoke the right side (hay field), atleast three smokes all spaced out (not bunched up). This way, you've got cover from both the hay roll deals and smoke.

Not to get off topic about cs_harvest, but really, smoke grenades are one of the most unappreciated items in the game.

But in any case, again, I'm a fan of cs_harvest and I hope it will continue to be in the regular rotation.

AzzMan

I do too but still... Man I hope more people start to change and form opinions like we all are here.

p3lvi5

I would definately change my tune if there were some modifications done to the map, but as it stands I just find it abysmal. I just don't like how it's basically four routes, each one with less cover than the last, moving into the same general area, sooo linear.

Root

Why would I want to by smoke you noob? That's $300 that I could be spending on a l337 skaut so I can go pwn me some n00bs, and then I can get my rank on the server from 3 to 1 if I pwn enough noobs.

Yup. That's the mentality of so many CS players.

Smoke grenades are pretty much THE only way of getting past a sniper with an acceptable level of risk, so it really begs the question - why do so few of our players buy smoke nades when the plan calls for it? Counter-snipers are great. Fantastic. But if they get taken out, you end up with people like me picking up their scout and dying. This leaves the objective nowhere. There are times when the most helpful thing a player can do, is to take a bullet to ensure the team completes the objective. Most of the time, however, dying is the LEAST helpful thing you can do for your team.

Maybe someone intelligent and articulate could post something in strategies, with regard to cover and concealment (particularly pointing out the difference between the two).

As for italy, those hostages are easy enough, because the same people who won't buy smoke on harvest are the ones allegedly guarding the hostages on italy.

Root

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AzzMan

I take those comments as a deep, scathing insult.

9/10 rounds on Harvest I get a smoke. The others.. well, sometimes you just need to equip accordingly.

And I understand all the tactics you can use to get by the snipers in Harvest. Being intelligent and looking around for snipers and/or rushers and advancing on the house is another easy one. Like, through the middle, you know what I mean?

The reason I posted this topic was not to speak of my distaste for the map, because I love it. And I have seen (since the topic was created) that many more people do now, as well.

If this continues, I do believe the map will be the most-played one on our TG servers.

Psycho

i really like this map...and we should keep it on here...but i can never come to the server when you play it so i think we should play it more often

Ferret

Well I personally wasn't blaming any particular person for failing to purchase smoke grenades, obviously. I think those who don't know who they are - when of course the plan or tactic requires it.

I've called it out many times at the beginning of a round as a CT on cs_harvest. Everyone buy a smoke grenade. I don't care if you're going right side or not, atleast purchase one and toss it out in the hay field for us going right side.

The reason I call smokes on right side is like I said earlier in the thread - not only are you getting cover from smoke, you're also getting cover from the hay bails as well. Once you push up, you then neutralize the back of the house. This is what I like to do, atleast. Push up the right side and clear the back of the house. Those going other directions (middle or left side) are responsible for clearing those areas outside.

The key to this map and militia alike is to neutralize or clear the outside of enemies before you enter the house. It's frustrating when players aren't doing their part in that manner - and on top of the fact, enter the house without the team. It's just best to clear the outside and then enter the house, as an entire team or unit. Same goes for cs_militia.

AzzMan

I think the main problem, if any anymore (continuing from the above statement I made), is on the T side.. all the CTs have fun all the time.