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Discussion: Counter-Strike - Map Discussion / Map Suggestions and Ideas - cs_harvest - Hehe, but see here, our server is an objective, teamwork, and reality based server. The
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08-23-2005, 01:40 PM #46
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Re: cs_harvest
Hehe, but see here, our server is an objective, teamwork, and reality based server. The first of those is thrown out the window, since here it's the T's objective to guard the house from a distance close enough to be able to fall back in case the CT's get too close. Any T found in CT spawn or the rescue point when hostages arent en route is slayed for abandoning the objective.
Thats why for these servers the map sucks. Its shrunk down to cross a big map to clear out a house and the area around. One partial alleviator would be to put a couple hostages in the shed or van. Split the objective up, and you use more of the map.
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08-23-2005, 03:33 PM #47
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Re: cs_harvest
Hostages were put in maps for a reason. We believe they should be the objective always, not killing each other.
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08-23-2005, 04:04 PM #48
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Re: cs_harvest
I'm not so sure objective is guard the house. Conceptually, objective is prevent CTs from rescue hostages. If house is big and easy to defend, you can accomplish objective guarding the house. But if house is small and hard to defend, people need to get out of there and find a better way to accomplish objective. That's why I say Ts should rush barn, where rescue zone is. This is not a FY, so there are objectives, but has not any sense to me that a big map like this should be reduced to "house siege" like hundreds of maps for CS. Guarding the house is a possibility, but I wanted to make it not the best way for Ts.since here it's the T's objective to guard the house from a distance close enough to be able to fall back in case the CT's get too close
My aim was to create an open field battle map for CS (even thinking CS is not a game for such situation). So I need both teams want to advance and use almost the entire map. Maybe isn't balanced at all, and that's what I want to improve. But solution is not making a better house for Ts get in and forget everything else.
Related to the house, keep in mind that performance is a big problem in this map, so I avoided too big or too complex buildings.Last edited by R_Yell; 08-23-2005 at 04:39 PM.
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08-23-2005, 04:25 PM #49
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Re: cs_harvest
Waht I would like to see in the map is more cover nearby the house. All there really is is the gazeebo which isn't good cover, the van which is, the shed which is, the tree which is ok, and the hay is pretty good. Perhaps something around the back, I don't know.
THat's my take on it however.
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08-23-2005, 04:40 PM #50
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Re: cs_harvest
A hostage moved to the broken down garage would be a good start. Spread them out since they are the objective in our style of play.
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08-23-2005, 05:19 PM #51
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Re: cs_harvest
Vulcan's right, R_Yell. It's not that there's anything inherently wrong with the map, it just doesn't fit with our style of play.
We play that defense defends, and offence attack. For your map to be played properly, as you point out, the Ts must rush the CTs. That falls foul of one of our main principles in PCS.
That said, no matter where you put the hossies, i still wouldn't like it as i prefer more close combat stuff than long open areas, and even with a bigger house (i see your point about why it is as it is tho) as i suggested i still wouldn't enjoy it.
If you'd like to make/modify any maps for us in future (and don't let my/our negative comments stop you
) have a read of our PCS FAQ. That'll give you a good idea of what we look for in a map. Or, even better, have a read then come and have a game with us!
Thanks for taking the time to come say hello!
Here's the FAQ
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08-23-2005, 05:21 PM #52
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Re: cs_harvest
If the CT's tag the hostages, then we are considered to have failed our primary objective. If they rescue them, then we have failed our fallback primary objective.
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08-23-2005, 05:27 PM #53
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Re: cs_harvest
Exactly, Karkianman. And the map's conflict with our style shows, as it's very rare a round ever ends with the hossies ever being rescued. In fact i've never seen it, but that might be something to do with me hitting @mapmenu when it comes up..
Originally Posted by Karkianman101
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08-23-2005, 06:36 PM #54
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Re: cs_harvest
Precisely what Kark and 9v have said. I think the map is well made.. but it does not fit this style of play perfectly.
Hence why I said what I previously said, about more places to hide near the house.
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08-23-2005, 08:03 PM #55
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Re: cs_harvest
ok, I understand better nowWe play that defense defends, and offence attack. For your map to be played properly, as you point out, the Ts must rush the CTs. That falls foul of one of our main principles in PCS. When I say "rush" I mean take positions in map, but yes, the principle "best defense is an attack" applies here.
Yes, rescue is a pain for several reasons, most evident is hosties acting like they can't walk more than 4 steps without stopping. I tried to avoid that, but in the end is related to game itself. Walking slowly they follow without problems, when people run they stop automatically. Is the worst part of the map.Exactly, Karkianman. And the map's conflict with our style shows, as it's very rare a round ever ends with the hossies ever being rescued. In fact i've never seen it
that could be possible, even I think a complete second floor could be added, with a window looking at back house side.Hence why I said what I previously said, about more places to hide near the house.
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08-23-2005, 11:11 PM #56
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Re: cs_harvest
No. Too many windows already. See, because we must stay near the hosties, and as such near the house, by the middle of the round at least all or all but 1 T's are inside, since 3 T's cant survive the snipe fest outside. As such, there are very few places to hide out of sight of a sniper point. Also, this is one reason that we dont like the map. Every game that the CT's win (most games) usually ends after a very drawn out house siege.
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08-24-2005, 01:24 AM #57
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Re: cs_harvest
Think realistically for a minute Kark.
What kind of house doesn't have that many windows? My house is considerably big, and I have a lot of windows too. Don't tell me you don't. From whre I am sitting right now, there is a window all across the wall behind me and two DOORS in the next room.
Windows exist. They come en mass.
House builds can make it so that you aren't always in a clear view of one, however.
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08-24-2005, 01:50 AM #58
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Re: cs_harvest
I can't think of any houses I've been in where there werent many ways to stay out of view from a window.
And for sake of gameplay > reality, we really need to have somewhat fewer windows on the map, or at least smaller windows.
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08-24-2005, 09:10 AM #59
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Re: cs_harvest
Do you want a bunker then?
Think about the problem to rescue hostages and making the house and surrounding zone easier to defend. I can't see both things happen at the same time. House (in this map) must be easy to assault because the hard part is get there and go back to barn with hostages. IMO, this map cannot be adapted to your way of playing. In other words, you must play the map as was conceived.
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08-24-2005, 09:25 AM #60
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Re: cs_harvest
Welcome R_Yell. It's always nice to have mappers join in the discussion
Even with more windows, a bigger second floor would make defending easier for the T's. When we first added this map, the CT's would get creamed almost every round, regardless of who was on what team. Now the CT's seem to have more of an edge as a general rule. A bunker would be nice, especially if it was more of a farm type one (eg grain, fuel etc) rather than an anti-tank type one.
With regard to version 2 of harvest, if the house was where the current rescue point is, and was bigger, CT's would have the option to flank completely around the house, and would enable more of the map to be used.
When you have your cargo ship map ready, post a link in the general CS forum and I'll endeavour to get it on the server.
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