TheBigC

We just got done trying this map on the on the server. I have a feeling most of you will find this as an instant favorite map. It is a well designed map that has 2 sets of hostages on separate sides of a long alley way. It has numerous routes and tons of places to hide to defend the hostages. It also has a crowd favorite of being able to use the rooftops.

Most important the map does not lag or have any issue that we could see after playing several rounds.

My only complaint would be that the hostage rescue area is about ten feet from the far set of hostages, making it very difficult to defend against. It is also not a great map for only a couple people, you need several people to defend both sets.

So get on the server and try it out!!

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The Meek shall inherit the earth..... after we're through with it!

The Wounded Warrior Project, help support my friends

Root

This was very popular with those who tried it on server 2. I'm sure this will feature later tonight.

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Fearfull Dave

I absolutly love this map, it forces the defensive team to have a really coherent plan to win. Also it makes covering fire an absolute necessity something i think that most maps were lacking. the route choices were well made and unique. Also there is a nice blend of close quarters and ranged combat.

whistler

One word that describes this map is AWESOME. Seemingly it's laid out like a VIP map, with one long route to get to one set of hostages and another to get to the second set. That's where the parallels with VIP come in: people can set up along those routes and be just effective as if they crowed along the hostages because of the hidden nooks and crannies. A good candidate for regular rotation IMHO.

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doorway 27

I also love this map - definilty think it should be in regular rotation. THe hosties being so close to the rescue zone at the end is a bit weird but I like the long stretch of empty buildings that line the route, great for sniping and taking pot shots.

Trooper

This is a great map. My only beef with it is you can snipe into the CTs spawn. But other than that it takes alot of teamwork to get both sets of hosties out and to safety.

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that sounds like a good idea trooper.
-Vulcan

Black_V!per

I love this map, and I request it every time im on.

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Vulcan

This map is ok, I'm really sick of the poor visual maps at this point though. It seems as though people just throw stuff together without putting much time into it and this map definately has that feel.

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What Is Schwa?

I agree with you vulcan.

Also... every time i've ever been on the server I havn't seen much teamwork. Sure, people will announce locations and stuff... but... really, there isn't much planning other than "uh, lets move up and try not to get sniped, maybe you go this way, i'll go that way... hopefully we don't all die real quick."

I know "stats don't exist" but I'd be interested in seeing how many times the objective has actually been completed, that is, all hostages rescued. In addition, it'd be interesting to see how many times the T's have won. I suspect the former is near zero, and the latter also very low.

-Aaron

Root

I'm not aware of a method by which I can get hostage rescue stats on a per map basis. I suppose I could leave the map on 24/7 for a week and note the start and end figures, but that would get pretty boring for the players.

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What Is Schwa?

Ah sorry. I ran a server with HLStatsX on it. It provided those kind of statistics. I wasn't sure what was going on behind the curtain at TG, so I made a wild guess.

-Aaron

SloppyJoe

Schwa, what stats you're looking for is going to be hard to find on CS maps in conjunction with PCS play. First of all, if the T's are defending the hostages and doing their job, the CTs may just as well kill all the T's before rescuing all the hostages (or the other way around).

The clearest example of this is CS_Italy. How often do the CT's rescue the hostages? I've seen it done -once- in all my time, and that was only because the last T was off task and hanging out in the apartments.

As far as making plans (and I'm assuming CT side since you mentioned "moving up", and I'm also assuming during the planning time at the beginning of the round since that's the feel of your post) it depends on the map. A map like convoy, that is so big and open, is difficult to make a static plan for. You wouldn't want a static plan for it either. There are so many variables that could go wrong or change that sticking to a concise plan thought up at the beginning of the round could quite often result in CT's getting a butt whooping. Why? Because the sense of being "committed" to a certain course of action leaves the team more strangled and confused if the expected opposition to the plan doesn't cooperate (and why would they?) leaving them in a state of "omg what do we do now?" and also leaving them with having to re-formulate a new plan on-the-fly.

So why not skip the demoralizing and confusing part and jump into the on-the-fly planning? You need to scout, gain intel, and be dynamic and communicative enough to see what the opposition is doing before coming up with a good plan to counter the oppositions set-up.

That's probably why you don't see extensive planning by the CTs on this map during planning time. I think at most you could assign scouts and their areas of interest to be scouted, or multiple fireteams with respective point-men. But more extensive planning on what team does what is more likely best left to be done when more intel is received (and this means scouting without dying, which is one of the more difficult challenges).

This is very particular to this map though, which is why it's so damn cool. On different maps initial planning could be much more concise. For example on CS_Italy, you could, during planning time, assign 2 people to apartments, 2 to cellar, 2 to long hall and 1 to under apartment. The 2 people on long hall could be assigned to sniping and annoyance in general, the under apartment exit guy could be assigned to flash the road out of apartments for the 2 apartment guys at 5:45 and then the apartment guys take control of the road, then assign the cellar guys to flash up onto the bridge at 5:30 to help the guys coming out of the cellar, then when the apartment guys get control of the corner looking onto the hostage building give the clear for the cellar guys to move up the middle stairs and add in the guy that flashed the apartment exit to join them and take control of the underwindow area while the 2 apartment guys cover and the long hall guys cover, then everyone move up and infiltrate the hostage building. Cough. Yeah that can all be done during planning time (and maybe an extra few seconds before moving out). But that works for CS_Italy where the T's area is much more confined and I daresay, expected. For BHD convoy, that ain't gonna work.

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What Is Schwa?

I think we've both just had different expereinces on bhd_convoy. I still stand by my statement that I have yet to be on a team that maneuvers together.

It has been my expereince that bhd_convoy is won by some good snipers, not good planning.

In addition, the event of a hostage being rescued is so rare I honestly cannot think of the last time I saw it happen.

-Aaron

Root

I fail to see why we can't have multiple set plays for every map.

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Greflin

Name one hostage map where you can get every hostage and not kill all the T’s who are on task? On maps like Office and Convoy, you can at least get 2 of the 4 without totally killing the t team. With hostage maps, there is going to be no map where you can get ALL 4 hostages without killing all the T’s it’s just not logical. When one set is taken, everyone who is playing by the objectives knows to fall back to guard the other set. This leads to a final shoot-out. Which leads to the ever present DM aspect of any online game.