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Discussion: Natural Selection / Natural Selection - General Discussion - Community Growth - The more I play on Jiggly Puff's server (the only server I really find that
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    tr0gd0r3's Avatar

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    Community Growth

    The more I play on Jiggly Puff's server (the only server I really find that can compete with TG in fun factor...) the more I hate the server and wish TG was a bit larger... I think we should try to grow our community a bit, release some bans, and loosen up on the rules a bit.
    I'm not saying let's change the face of TG:NS. Just maybe try to appeal to more people so we can get more quality games going on TG, where we have responsible admins who can still moderate, but will let the odd swear word go by so long as it isn't harming anyones experience.
    I understand Wyz, you'd prefer I brought this to the attention of you alone... But I'm hoping as a community you could let the entire community discuss this.
    There's some good regulars on Jiggly Puff who I've invited to play on TG, and they say they're banned. Perhaps a second chance could be in order?
    Last edited by tr0gd0r3; 12-31-2007 at 06:50 PM.

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    Re: Community Growth

    The rules are what makes TG a good server. They are there to stop idiots from running loose. This is more than enough appeal to the type of players that make playing on TG an enjoyable experience.

    Swearing is a simple issue. Once you give up an inch (allowing some swearing) players will take a mile and argue and whine about what qualifies. It would just be a huge headache for everyone, and especially the admins. The Primtime TV rule allows for ample communication, and I actually prefer a rule that encourages people to use vocabulary above that heard in middle school bathrooms.

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    Re: Community Growth

    It's TG, not TF.

    Your call to appeal to more people is asking us to relax the rules that make TG an enjoyable place to begin with. Adding volume at the cost of quality is out of the question.

    Our rules are not difficult to understand, nor are they difficult to follow. Most people who are banned are in fact given second -- even third -- chances to return, despite the fact that more often than not, an unbanned player will regress to whatever behavior got them banned the first time around. We've every right to be cynics in this regard, but for some reason I've got this dogged optimism about the human condition that keeps letting folks have another try.

    We will not relax any rules that will dilute the quality of Tactical Gamer's experience.

    NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
    Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
    <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
    <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

    Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

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    tr0gd0r3's Avatar

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    Re: Community Growth

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokerface View Post
    It's TG, not TF.

    Your call to appeal to more people is asking us to relax the rules that make TG an enjoyable place to begin with. Adding volume at the cost of quality is out of the question.

    Our rules are not difficult to understand, nor are they difficult to follow. Most people who are banned are in fact given second -- even third -- chances to return, despite the fact that more often than not, an unbanned player will regress to whatever behavior got them banned the first time around. We've every right to be cynics in this regard, but for some reason I've got this dogged optimism about the human condition that keeps letting folks have another try.

    We will not relax any rules that will dilute the quality of Tactical Gamer's experience.
    Oops, was playing NS before as comm, kept typing TF =P.
    I think everyone has been guilty of swearing by accident on the server... And sometimes people don't even get a warning for swearing, and thus lose appeal after they receive a boot...

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    Re: Community Growth

    Quote Originally Posted by tr0gd0r3 View Post
    Oops, was playing NS before as comm, kept typing TF =P.
    I think everyone has been guilty of swearing by accident on the server... And sometimes people don't even get a warning for swearing, and thus lose appeal after they receive a boot...

    They do get a warning, everyone does when they join the server, people don't read! most of the time.

    Personally I'd prefer for NS to die until NS2, rather then lessen the restrictions about rules.


    PS. Pie has hit a bulls eye.

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    Re: Community Growth

    I think there's some things that could be done to attract more people, and I'm not talking about endorsing stupidity.

    Simple details like enabling a votemap at the end of the round, and removing the question marks icons, could help. I mention the question marks because new players to the server may feel alienated when they have a "?" by their name and are usually harassed by regulars watching over them all the time. So maybe instead of giving the new guys a question mark, we could give the regulars a different icon. Sort of like Yo-clan does.

    A more extreme thing could be deleting the bans list. Before you yell at this suggestion, think that half of the people in that list probably don't even have the game installed anymore. The other half would probably not even notice they have been unbanned. And there's also the chance that people might actually show up (isn't that what we want?). Anyway, the rules would still be the same and thus, if people are still being jerks, they will be banned again.

    Bleh, this was kind of a long post. It's just ridiculous to see servers like <BAD> and G4B2S are full 24/7 whereas TG is hardly ever filling up anymore. And as it is, I doubt it will start filling up again, unless suddenly a good number of regulars recover their interest on NS.

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    tr0gd0r3's Avatar

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    Re: Community Growth

    Yeah, you basically took the words out of my mouth lagarto, but I was hungover and too stupid to put together something of intelligence... i'm didn't mean let's join the morons, and have a bad community, just made the thread to discuss a way to get the community going again.

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    Re: Community Growth

    Quote Originally Posted by lagarto View Post
    I think there's some things that could be done to attract more people, and I'm not talking about endorsing stupidity.

    Simple details like enabling a votemap at the end of the round, and removing the question marks icons, could help. I mention the question marks because new players to the server may feel alienated when they have a "?" by their name and are usually harassed by regulars watching over them all the time. So maybe instead of giving the new guys a question mark, we could give the regulars a different icon. Sort of like Yo-clan does.

    A more extreme thing could be deleting the bans list. Before you yell at this suggestion, think that half of the people in that list probably don't even have the game installed anymore. The other half would probably not even notice they have been unbanned. And there's also the chance that people might actually show up (isn't that what we want?). Anyway, the rules would still be the same and thus, if people are still being jerks, they will be banned again.

    Bleh, this was kind of a long post. It's just ridiculous to see servers like <BAD> and G4B2S are full 24/7 whereas TG is hardly ever filling up anymore. And as it is, I doubt it will start filling up again, unless suddenly a good number of regulars recover their interest on NS.
    The things u describe is why those 2 servers are full 24/7, and for same reason why NS games (non CO) suck 99% of the time on them.

    NS is dying on TG cause other games are out, I just bought CoD4.

    The idea about giving icons to regulars, and removing '?' marks is indeed good.

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    Re: Community Growth

    No Turb, games on those servers suck 99% of the time because they are 30 man servers. NS doesn't work that way at all. And yes, we all know why TGNS is apparently dying, what we're discussing here is how to keep it from dying.

    Anyway, back into that other servers thing, I think TGNS is worth saving for the fact alone that it's the only decent USA server to play NS. Probably in the whole damn continent. How so ? well, as far as I know it's the only server that disables blockscripts, that has a reasonable player size, and has a good, consistent ping. Even discarding the high quality community, the server by itself is way ahead of the competition.

    That and the fact that competitive NS in America seems pretty much dead, it leaves no room to play NS the way it meant to be played for us. So, is NS dying after all ? LOL FLAYRA KILLED NS. I didn't mean to flavour my post with any drama btw.

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    tr0gd0r3's Avatar

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    Re: Community Growth

    And NS 2 could be among us within a year or so... I can barely play games without a community... Sniff... Sniff... I think we should support our hobby.

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    Re: Community Growth

    Quote Originally Posted by tr0gd0r3 View Post
    And NS 2 could be among us within a year or so... I can barely play games without a community... Sniff... Sniff... I think we should support our hobby.
    Duke Nukem Forever will be released before NS 2, and I the prophecy states upon the release of DNF, an apocalypse will take place.

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    Re: Community Growth

    Bans will not be universally, magically repealed for all offenders.

    That said, there is very clear information regarding the process that one should go through in order to appeal a ban.
    Cool! Personalized plates! Barclay, Barry, Bert, Bort...come on...Bort?

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  25. #13

    tr0gd0r3's Avatar

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    Re: Community Growth

    These people don't want to spend time appealing a ban that occured months ago, they want to play a game, and so do I... Whether they deserve to continue playing in TG something an another admin should decide upon a repeat offense. I think the opportunity to increase the community's growth, while at most sacrificing 5 seconds of time, and a line of code to assure those morons are gone for good for the second time is worth the effort.

    There's some good people on Jiggly Puff's that are only slightly immature, but could have made a marginal mistake on TG, but paid the price, and at the same time, I think TG sort of paid for it, now no one plays on our server. What's the point in having a community if no one's in it? (Exagerative...)

    Let's rethink our policies, try to be a bit more lenient, but maintain a sense of maturity... while preaching it in an appropriate manner to those who come in the server... rather than sending them to a different server permanently...

    Could we at least have some sort of vote on this? Any democracy?

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    Re: Community Growth

    I have also run into a number of decent players on other servers who have been banned from TG (including some who were solid regulars before receiving a ban). I realize that many of these players could get their bans removed by going through the pm process, but for some who didn't experience much of TG before the ban they would have no knowledge that going through that process might be worth it. Given our current difficulties maintaining an adequate playerbase, it might be worth considering issuing temp bans rather than permament bans except in extreme cases, and marking the change in ban frequency with an (almost) universal second chance. I can think of very few offenses where a ban of one month wouldn't be severe enough.

    I understand many of these bans were not intended to be permanent, but used as a method to get people to understand why they were removed before they are allowed to return. Unfortunately, the reaction to that approach is often "Oh well, their loss." In many of these cases, never seeing these players again IS our loss, and with the reduced size of our playerbase, these losses are simply becoming too costly.

    One other thing worth considering might be a reduction of the amount (or frequency) of ? spam, as this seems to be one of the more frequent complaints of new players to the server. While it may have been reasonable to give that much "encouragement" to register when all but 2-3 players were already regs, it just doesn't make as much sense when the majority of the server are ?'s.

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  29. #15

    Dr. Pepper PhD.'s Avatar

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    Re: Community Growth

    As a comment on the minor offense, I have never seen a time when someone swore and another said nothing more than language and they apologized and it never happened again.

    At the same time the question has been asked about why language is considered inappropriate. I would usually stick up if no one else did and explain the adult gaming community.

    I know GB isn't even close to a ban, but I have GB'ed plenty of people that would not refrain from cussing or any other rule, yet every time it was at least 2 minutes of warning(or asking if they have mic sound), before any action was taken.

    I would be amazed if anyone was actually "BAM banned" if they let the "f" word slip just once. Repeat offenders are the only bans I have ever witnessed.

    As for changing the rules I think that Agy has hit a possible change. Obviously hacking would be a situation for permaban with proper demo submitted to an admin, but for things like cussing, I'm pretty sure that a month away would at least get through the point to them that they needn't swear on our server.

    I don't know how possible this is but if you could make like a ban database for past temp bans you could have it send a pm to an admin or someone that there are two bans for like circumstances, or two bans at all for that matter to alert for a longer period.

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