snappy

Thank you Rampage... this made me laugh for like 5 minutes.

Wyzcrak

Oh gah. Who cares about CO? It's a glorified ready room where people meet to play NS.

If nothing else (like the things that I'm sure Zek or Poker could point out if called upon to do so), unchained alone introduces a potential that 8v8 will feel different this time around than it did last time.

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Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

Stupid

My experience with 8v8 so far (just last night) was that it made for a more intensified gameplay. If the skill was balanced (just looking at which players were on what side on the scoreboard) then it was anyone's game. If one team had just a few more "less-skilled" players - they were sunk.

I never saw more than 2 fades. Ever. Most players aren't skilled enough as skulks to get enough RFK to go fade in the time necessary. Aliens have a hard time holding more than 1 node outside their original start node - you're lucky to have 2 fades + hive + chambers at the 4min mark. The other 4 skulks barely have enough to do a little laming.

Hives drop much faster. One sneak shotty rush can take out a hive in just one volley (no d chambers, lvl 2 shotty).

One hive ono (with cara) is less effective than in the 7v7 games I've seen.

Overall I will claim that 2/3 of the games go to marines - not based on anything other than what I've seen so far. The game play is just as intense - and tends to magnify the skill differences between the teams.

Let's keep doing it until something new comes up.


BTW - Unchained does bring the balance back towards the aliens. The ability to have a sentry with SoF and a movement chamber (for when the second, building hive comes under attack) swings it to the 2/3 figure I give above. Without unchained.... 90% to marines -- they can have 1 comm, 1 building in base - and STILL have 3 people to each side of the map getting nodes. That's a good squad. They can split and have squads of two going to the three hives - two building nodes, the other taking out nodes.

I think aliens need to learn to counter a little more effectively - ambush better, work in packs, and they might even have to delay dropping so many nodes at the start just to deter the marine rush. If you've got 1/2 your team dropping nodes - the other 4 can't do much to stop the marines, and then you lose 2-3 of the nodes you DID drop.

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Former TGNS admin until WoW blinded me with flashy lights.

TheAdj`

The problem with most pubs is aliens play stupidly. They don't ambush in groups, and gorges build the worst possible nodes to defend. For some reason gorges always build nodes the farthest away from the hive, or a node that's near marine start that is IMPOSSIBLE to defend. At 8v8 there should only be 2-3 nodes dropped at the beginning anyways, as it's impossible to defend more than that. With 8 players you can easily pull 4 fades if not more, they simply can't do doing blatantly stupid stuff. 2 pairs of fades can work the entire map and defend both hives, while skulks attack nodes. Skulks act so dumb, they simply rush at marines repeatedly the entire game. This doesn't work. Early game a skulk is the main unit, and it's not suited to anything BUT ambushing, not running retardedly at marines by itself. Once fades and lerks are out, skulks should focus on attacking marine structures, NOT marines. Once hive2 is up skulks can take on marines with leap, but they're still more effective at killing nodes. If nodes are electrified reverse it, skulks wait on marines, parasite, then run and call the fades, which are working on the electrified rts. If the skulk can take the marine fine, but if there are multiple marines it's more efficient to simply para them all, run away, and call the fades in to take them. People seem so stuck on being a superskulk they forget how ineffective they are versus marines. There's a reason clan play on the alien side revolves around delay and defense until the fades appear. Skulks are ineffective early game against marines, and should simply delay them until fades appear.

lordflametide

Alright...so here goes.

I believe that in a competetive and relatively equal skill scenario, 8v8 is very balanced, fun, and entertaining. That one extra person per team adds a LOT of flair to the game, a lot more ground coverage. This being so...

Alien play in public games tends to lack. Reaction time to threats is a LOT lower than it should be, and amazingly, I don't think people use their hive sight nearly enough. Far too many people ignore the little red icons on their screen, and wait for the "blah blah blah is under attack!" voice message. The hive begins blinking on hive sight and in the top right corner far before the message plays. Heck, a lot of people don't even respond to structure or node under attack messages. Aliens *must* react in the early game, except for a couple RT hunting skulks, aliens can't really shape the game...they have to adapt to it. Once a handful of fades and chambers, and possibly a second hive is up, aliens can come up to speed with marines in terms of offensive power. I just see way too many skulks trying to do massive pushes, rather than ninja strikes, and defensive ambushes. These factors give the marines (with a proper commander...which isn't really missing in an 8 player team) a significant advantage. However...theres two effects that these facts with 8v8 could cause. You can a) have your alien players get significantly better, or b) no one wants to play because of how supposedly unfair it is.

Personally...when I'm aliens, I don't care for 8v8, because it feels like 2-4 people on my team are actually doing something useful, and the rest are just sopping up res, and giving the marines their RFK. As a marine, I thank the additional ground coverage possible every minute I'm alive, especially as commander.

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The vending machine originated in Egypt in 215 B.C. Learn somethin new everyday, dontcha?

Turbinator

how about primal scream boosting xeno and gas.

or jp'ers not affected by stomp.

U can actually pick up all of the ammo person had when he dies, small and perhaps not that significant, but never the less crucial at times.

GL is only 15 res

one thing that has changed is shooting in general, the ammo animation is blocking my view lol, ill get used to it, but it does at the moment

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Lito

the server was hard enough to fill and keep 14 players for more than 2 games. Though 8v8 does make for fun games, but it doesn't matter if it players don't join to replace the players that leave.

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TheFeniX

Yea, but if we allow 16 players but end up with 14, we don't lose anything. If we shoot for 14 and only get 12.... well, you get the idea.

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Lt.Asher

Having played a few 8v8 games I have to say it's very... interesting. The marines can and have lost games very easily by too many people running off and getting killed, which feeds the aliens much faster. This also takes away from the comm because now he has to babysit moreso and worry about aliens getting fade faster which is pretty much a game killer with bad marines.

Perhaps some enforcement is in order? While I'm sure no one likes the thought of having to kick players, players like less the thought of bad team mates that ruin the game for them. I for one would much sooner be playing a 8v8, boot someone and be 7v8 for a while in the hope that a good player comes about rather then watch that person constantly run off fuel the aliens. But it really needs to be the comms choice as he sees everything. Just my two cents! =)

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Though much is taken, much abides; and though
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved heaven and earth, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

lordflametide

Alright, theres several things wrong with this.

A) It *is* a game, and at TG we strive to have fun, rather than be overly competative (see the spawncamping thread).

B) You should ALWAYS attempt to help another teammate of yours around, no matter how much it cuts into your efficency, or score, or whatever. Helping a teammate learn the most effective way to play the game will lead to much more enjoyable games in the future, and possibly another regular on the server. If you have to follow around in front of them, with your mic symbol above your head, and say "<person>, follow me please," then do it.

C) What you propose is completely left open to personal interpetation by each admin, someone that tried to land a couple ninja phase gate setups, and fails miserably could be considered a 'bad player' that just keeps running off and feeding the aliens. RFK in general is not a huge problem, unless a signficant ammount of your team is constantly dying. Also keep in mind, that commanders in general already give gear to well-performing players first, because losing a 35 res marine is much worse than giving a single alien 1-3 res.

D) We have 16 slots on our server, not a whole lot in typical HL terms, and require updated, properly executed Cheating Death to even join for more than 5 seconds. Anyone that goes through this hassle either wants to learn, wants to get better, or is already an advanced player that is looking for a great game. Theres no need to boot these people.

E) The minute you drop to 7v8, at least 2 marines are on the alien team begging for the extra player...and probably with good reason. However, after helping the alien team get to where they are, no one wants to leave, and its understandable. Why make the problem worse?

F) As far as it being the "comm's choice", its simply something that can be abused, and we certainly can't give admin to the comm, and the comm doesn't need one more thing to worry about. It is the marine team that is responsible for sticking together, and getting stuff done. Again, help the newbie, don't outcast them.

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The vending machine originated in Egypt in 215 B.C. Learn somethin new everyday, dontcha?