Re: TGNS servers need serious work

**Wyzcrak** · 02-01-2008, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by Dr. Pepper PhD.

we did notice wyz there tonight and hope that we can find and fix the problem

I'll be giving this more attention in the next week than I've given it in the last month. As I'm just beginning that, I have no idea what the "fix" will be (also, others will likely be more deserving of thanks than I'll be once it's fixed). No promises.

**ChopStick** · 02-05-2008, 05:03 AM

Thanks Wyz.

**Agamemnon** · 02-10-2008, 04:56 AM

So we discovered tonight that the commander chat is lagging the server again. Not sure if that was fixed and is now broken again, or whether it just stayed broken and we didn't have comms typing enough to see the connection.

Also, as "next week" has come and gone, has there been any progress on the reinstall yet? Or does the reappearance of the comm chat lag mean that we reverted to a backup that had that problem?

**Wyzcrak** · 02-10-2008, 06:17 PM

I've given this more thought and no more effort in the last week.

Let's take baby steps. I've just disabled the comm chat. Given how long we've been on that, it's hard to swallow it as the cause, but what's the harm in trying? ... especially given how time-consuming it is to investigate network issues (my main suspect).

**Agamemnon** · 02-10-2008, 07:38 PM

So of the various suggestions that have been made, the common theme seems to be that the first step in trying to do something about this is a clean reinstall, starting with as few plugins as we possibly can, and slowly re-adding whichever we feel we just can't live without.

I would say just having the Admin Icons and Goodbye plugins would be enough to start with, as that would still allow us to exert some control over what goes on in the server. Just for testing purposes, it would probably be good to have a couple days with absolutely no plugins, just the fresh reinstall, so that we can verify reasonable server performance with nothing on it.

So to summarize, the first of these "baby steps" is the clean reinstall without any plugins added.

**Apophis** · 02-10-2008, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

So of the various suggestions that have been made, the common theme seems to be that the first step in trying to do something about this is a clean reinstall, starting with as few plugins as we possibly can, and slowly re-adding whichever we feel we just can't live without.

I would say just having the Admin Icons and Goodbye plugins would be enough to start with, as that would still allow us to exert some control over what goes on in the server. Just for testing purposes, it would probably be good to have a couple days with absolutely no plugins, just the fresh reinstall, so that we can verify reasonable server performance with nothing on it.

So to summarize, the first of these "baby steps" is the clean reinstall without any plugins added.

That's not a baby step, it's treating dandruff by decapitation. It would also eliminate your ability to find the root cause of the problem and would only be effective at eliminating the effects of the root cause.

**Wyzcrak** · 02-10-2008, 10:49 PM

I've used a clean install before to treat similar problems. Decapitation does keep you from learning the root cause, but between my limited time and the seemingly sporadic nature of troubleshooting heavily modded servers, I'd be tickled pink right now if we could just get ourselves happy, root cause designation or not. Sadly, though, that approach requires much more work than I'm hoping we'll be able to put into this to solve it.

As it is, I'm better lately for making time commitments than I am keeping the (hence our continued problems).

"We haven't changed anything on the server" sounds good, but it doesn't really mean much (see "sporadic" note above). Nevertheless, the server is largely in a very good (nevermind complex) state (config-wise, performance problems aside), and I'd like to leave as much of that in place as we can manage, as I certainly do not have the time (short of me hitting a full-on "nerd night" the likes of which I haven't had since Evan was born) to recreate from the ground floor (even by adding files "back" one at a time -- that is an oversimplification in some -- not all -- details) the many, many tweaks that make the server what it is today.

**Agamemnon** · 02-11-2008, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by Apophis

That's not a baby step, it's treating dandruff by decapitation. It would also eliminate your ability to find the root cause of the problem and would only be effective at eliminating the effects of the root cause.

Over the course of the last month and a half we've shown ourselves clearly unable to diagnose the root cause. If eliminating the effects will yield a functioning server with decent performance, I say bring out the guillotine.

If the problem is truly a software problem with one of the plugins, the quickest way to determine that would be reinstalling half at a time, effectively doing a binary search. Essentially, at each step the process is:

If server is functioning correctly, add half of the last removed plugins. (With the starting set of last removed plugins being all of them)

If server stops functioning correctly, remove half of the last added plugins.

If removing a plugin is as easy as adding one, this process could certainly be done in reverse starting from the full server. However, starting from a vanilla server with none of the plugins lets us immediately determine whether the problem is or is not caused by a plugin.

**Dr. Pepper PhD.** · 02-11-2008, 04:08 AM

I know my opinion here matters little since i have not the money to donate yet, but it seems a real turnoff to the TG community to let a server go 2 months with a known problem and doing little to fix it.

I understand that our(TGNS) admins are extremely busy with their lives and that them being the knowledgeable ones on the plugins and the like would be the prime ones to fix it. But if wyz still thinks its a networking issue then why hasn't this been checked thoroughly.

Although I must wonder that if it were outside the host location between them and us then why is TGNS the only server being affected. So that in my mind leaves software, or internal networking of our specific server within theplanet's farm. Has this been addressed with theplanet? The only thing i am aware that has been addressed(with them) is that hardware is good.

I have been a member of this community for a while and love it. If I had the choice of still getting my butt handed to me for 7 hours on TGNS or dominating people of lower calibers in BAD and G4B2S, I'd pick TGNS everytime. I try to do my part. Ask aga he gets a message from me almost daily "SEEDING TGNS" because I wanna help how I can. It just seems like this community is being put out to pasture with so little being done about an important issue for gameplay.

If I can help I will, here are my ideas for root problems:
1. Networking issue within theplanet
2. Problem with a windows update that came about around the beginning of december(the beginning of the lag)
3. Other software loaded on the server box, intentional or uninvited(virus, spyware, etc.)
4. Adjustment made to plugins around the december area, only one to my knowledge was the adaptation to the balance command (No two commands can be set off close to one another resulting in the kick of half the server). Do not recall when this was made but was done in the last two months.

Other than that nothing else would logically make sense as other things would be happening that would give different feedback (lag, error logs, etc.) One thing I have noticed is the most recent lag i have noticed was during implementation of whichbot... lagged the other night with 7 or 8 people and 11 bots... extremely violent lag too.

Sorry if i am more a pain than a help... i just want my home back....

**blu.knight** · 02-11-2008, 08:23 AM

Maybe it's the end for NS... Maybe we should all convert to TF2 and get a TGTF2 server.

We should just yell at Flayra to finish NS2 faster.

**kormendi** · 02-11-2008, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by blu.knight

get a TGTF2 server

There already is a TGTF2 server.

**Agamemnon** · 02-11-2008, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Dr. Pepper PhD.

If I can help I will, here are my ideas for root problems:
1. Networking issue within theplanet
2. Problem with a windows update that came about around the beginning of december(the beginning of the lag)
3. Other software loaded on the server box, intentional or uninvited(virus, spyware, etc.)
4. Adjustment made to plugins around the december area, only one to my knowledge was the adaptation to the balance command (No two commands can be set off close to one another resulting in the kick of half the server). Do not recall when this was made but was done in the last two months.

As to number 4, we tried reversing that change. It had no effect on the lag.

**TheFeniX** · 02-11-2008, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by kormendi

There already is a TGTF2 server.

I told you boy don't touch that darn thing.

FYI: I played a bit of NS last night and it did well with 14 people on. Granted, after losing three times in a row I realized it would be more productive to go to sleep, so I didn't hang around for later games.

**Wyzcrak** · 02-11-2008, 11:20 PM

The response to the "why hasn't this been fixed yet" just can't go beyond the NS admins given how little time we've given it and, more importantly, how little we've included anyone past Poker in the conversation. It is negligence, plain and simple.

I'm still working on this. Between my limited time and what I'm guessing is everyone else's boredom hearing about solution attempt after solution attempt that doesn't give relief, I'll not go into the details here and now.

**Wyzcrak** · 02-13-2008, 12:17 AM

Server's down for the night while I poke it with cold needles.

TF2 is DYING.

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