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Discussion: Natural Selection / Natural Selection - General Discussion - Plugin discussion - As Poker requested, this is a thread to discuss what plugins we're currently running and
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    Plugin discussion

    As Poker requested, this is a thread to discuss what plugins we're currently running and which we need to keep. Also helpful would be if there was any way to determine the load each is putting on the server, so we can see which are the really expensive ones. If anyone knows how to do that, speak up. As to which we need to keep, I'll just start it off with the list from the wiki and my opinion on each:

    Admin Icons - keep

    Alien Upgrade Information - lose it, outdated

    STEAM ID PENDING Removal - not sure whether or not we need this

    CO Alltalk - I'd be willing to give this up if it helps, but if it has no effect on the server
    during NS then keep

    DC Nest Block - keep

    ExtraLevels2 - keep, we play enough co these days that 10 lvls would be painful

    Forums Speak - keep, but look into how much it's using when most of the server is ?

    HLTV Listen - I'd be willing to lose this as we no longer do HLTV sessions

    Latejoin XP - keep, again we play enough co that I think we need this

    Loading CATBUS - lose it

    Marine Extra - keep

    NS_BHOP Config - lose it

    Reserved Slots - keep

    Resources Balance - keep

    Stripper2 - lose it

    Temporary Admins - keep

    Wait Join - Either way, I'd be willing to lose this if necessary, but would be nice to keep for
    now if it's not a big drain.

    Voice_Enable Required - keep

    HLTV Hud - for these two, I think the relevant question is whether they are needed for
    admin reviews of demos. If you don't need the extra info from this plugin for that, then
    I'd say lose it.
    HLTV Connect Per Game - keep only if necessary for admin reviews

    Commander Eject Announce - keep

    Locked Spectate - keep

    AMX Tagline - lose it

    Goodbye - keep

    Territory - lose it if this is still loaded in any way

    Server Rules - keep

    Points Manager - lose it if this is still loaded in any way

    Unstuck - keep

    Team Resources Display - lose it, outdated

    WhichBot Manager - keep

    Bot Level - keep

    AMX Auto Demo - lose it

    Tooltips - not sure what this does exactly, but from the description I'd be willing to lose it

    Auto Gestate - lose it

    Captains Games - If it's a big drain when captains isn't on, I'd say lose it. If it doesn't do anything until someone issues the captains command, then keep it.

    Rate Check - keep

    Conspicuously absent from the wiki list was the Balance plugin, which I'd like to keep if we can figure out what was changed last month and reverse it. Based on all the one-sided games tonight from amx_random, I really wouldn't want to see that become the only option.

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    TheFeniX's Avatar

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    Re: Plugin discussion

    The removal of the catbus loading song is a sad...sad.. day for this old-school NS player.

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    Re: Plugin discussion

    To my knowledge, nothing has been edited on the server with regard to the balance plugin.
    I'll verify that the outdated stuff is off; it might just be that the wiki needs a good beating.

    NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
    Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
    <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
    <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

    Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

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    Re: Plugin discussion

    Keep
    Admin Icons - Useful
    Reserved Slots - Vital
    Unstuck - Vital
    Temporary Admins - Vital
    Goodbye - Vital
    Server Rules - Vital

    Resources Balance - Very useful
    Wait Join - I think it's better with it than without, helps prevent stacking
    Balance/Random Plugin - Very useful
    DC Nest Block - Somewhat useful, not entirely necessary
    Voice_Enable Required - Communication is imporant
    Locked Spectate - Not sure if this is a plugin or just a .cfg setting, but it keeps things fair.
    Commander Eject Announce - Marginally useful
    Captains Games - It's really nice to at least have them as an option
    Rate Check - Useful to prevent people abusing screwed up rates.

    ExtraLevels2 - Makes co_ less painful
    Latejoin XP - Makes co_ less painful
    CO Alltalk - Makes co_ less painful

    Don't Keep
    Alien Upgrade Information - Outdated, unnecessary
    Loading CATBUS - Unnecessary
    NS_BHOP Config - Unnecessary
    Stripper2 - Unnecessary
    AMX Tagline - Unnecessary
    Territory - wiki says it's already disabled anyways
    Points Manager - Outdated, unnecessary
    Team Resources Display - Outdated, unnecessary
    AMX Auto Demo - Unecessary, I used it though
    Auto Gestate - Unecessary, doesn't add aynthing
    Forums Speak - If this is the thing show recent forum topics, it's 100% useless. If it is what always reminds you about checking NS as an active game it's really annoying and useless, too.

    Not Sure
    STEAM ID PENDING Removal - Does this do anything?
    Tooltips - Never seen an admin use this.
    Marine Extra - If this does anything, it's not much.
    WhichBot Manager - I don't find bots fun at all
    Bot Level - I don't find bots fun at all
    HLTV Listen - Not overly useful, people are rarely in htlv
    HLTV Hud - It's nice, but how often are people on hltv anymore?
    HLTV Connect Per Game - This is only important for admin reviews, so it's up to them




    Are the Natural Selection servers still hosted on their own box, or are they shared with new games or something now? It doesn't really make sense that the plugins by themselves are the problem when they haven't undergone any real change.

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    Re: Plugin discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. pie View Post
    Keep
    Admin Icons - Useful
    Reserved Slots - Vital
    Unstuck - Vital
    Temporary Admins - Vital
    Goodbye - Vital
    Server Rules - Vital

    Resources Balance - Very useful
    Wait Join - I think it's better with it than without, helps prevent stacking
    Balance/Random Plugin - Very useful
    DC Nest Block - Somewhat useful, not entirely necessary
    Voice_Enable Required - Communication is imporant
    Locked Spectate - Not sure if this is a plugin or just a .cfg setting, but it keeps things fair.
    Commander Eject Announce - Marginally useful
    Captains Games - It's really nice to at least have them as an option
    Rate Check - Useful to prevent people abusing screwed up rates.

    ExtraLevels2 - Makes co_ less painful
    Latejoin XP - Makes co_ less painful
    CO Alltalk - Makes co_ less painful

    Don't Keep
    Alien Upgrade Information - Outdated, unnecessary
    Loading CATBUS - Unnecessary
    NS_BHOP Config - Unnecessary
    Stripper2 - Unnecessary
    AMX Tagline - Unnecessary
    Territory - wiki says it's already disabled anyways
    Points Manager - Outdated, unnecessary
    Team Resources Display - Outdated, unnecessary
    AMX Auto Demo - Unecessary, I used it though
    Auto Gestate - Unecessary, doesn't add aynthing
    Forums Speak - If this is the thing show recent forum topics, it's 100% useless. If it is what always reminds you about checking NS as an active game it's really annoying and useless, too.

    Not Sure
    STEAM ID PENDING Removal - Does this do anything?
    Tooltips - Never seen an admin use this.
    Marine Extra - If this does anything, it's not much.
    WhichBot Manager - I don't find bots fun at all
    Bot Level - I don't find bots fun at all
    HLTV Listen - Not overly useful, people are rarely in htlv
    HLTV Hud - It's nice, but how often are people on hltv anymore?
    HLTV Connect Per Game - This is only important for admin reviews, so it's up to them




    Are the Natural Selection servers still hosted on their own box, or are they shared with new games or something now? It doesn't really make sense that the plugins by themselves are the problem when they haven't undergone any real change.
    NS is its own box (for the time being).

    NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
    Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
    <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
    <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash

    Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

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    Re: Plugin discussion

    Could it be a problem at the Planet? My latency is in the 40 range now compared to the 15-20 average I used to get. I'm not sure how much server load from plugins could effect that.

    Also, the plugin list is obviously lacking some stuff since it doesn't include the co_ respawn plugin that is on the server, unless that is included with the extra levels.

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    Re: Plugin discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. pie View Post
    Don't Keep
    Alien Upgrade Information - Outdated, unnecessary
    Loading CATBUS - Unnecessary
    NS_BHOP Config - Unnecessary
    Stripper2 - Unnecessary
    AMX Tagline - Unnecessary
    Territory - wiki says it's already disabled anyways
    Points Manager - Outdated, unnecessary
    Team Resources Display - Outdated, unnecessary
    AMX Auto Demo - Unecessary, I used it though
    Auto Gestate - Unecessary, doesn't add aynthing
    Forums Speak - If this is the thing show recent forum topics, it's 100% useless. If it is what always reminds you about checking NS as an active game it's really annoying and useless, too.

    Not Sure
    STEAM ID PENDING Removal - Does this do anything?
    Tooltips - Never seen an admin use this.
    Marine Extra - If this does anything, it's not much.
    WhichBot Manager - I don't find bots fun at all
    Bot Level - I don't find bots fun at all
    HLTV Listen - Not overly useful, people are rarely in htlv
    HLTV Hud - It's nice, but how often are people on hltv anymore?
    HLTV Connect Per Game - This is only important for admin reviews, so it's up to them

    From this post, I just wanted to address three things. First, from the description I think Forums Speak is what sends all the text ?'s see. To me, this makes it a possible culprit for increased lag because of the increased proportion of ?'s we have nowadays, but I would not want to get rid of it entirely, or we wouldn't get new people ever reading the primer.

    Second, Marine Extra seems to be what we generally refer to as Oddman, meaning this is what causes the extra player to join marines. If you've played much on other servers, you've probably frequently seen the extra go aliens, which tends to wreck games. On TG, we would still eventually get the extra to rines, but it might wind up being someone other than the new joiner, and will always cause extra headache. I think if we gave this up we'd be screaming for its return within a week.

    Lastly, as to the two bot plugins, I have to address this same question to anyone who wants to remove them: how often are you the first person on the server? I don't enjoy bots either, but it gets people to join faster (because the population appears higher), and it's better than staring at the wall in the readyroom. Essentially, giving these up will mean you see a full server less often, regardless of how often you personally use them. Also, I would assume it only affects the server during co, and therefore shouldn't be causing lag during NS (I would hope).

    So unfortunately, I've just argued in favor of keeping all three, which won't help reduce the lag at all. We may need to make some painful sacrifices to get this fixed, I just want to make sure we understand what we're giving up beforehand, since we might not be able to get these changes reversed anytime soon.

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    Re: Plugin discussion

    So I guess Marine Extra (Oddman) has been removed, does that mean a large group has disappeared and that was the only one noticeable? Or is it still there and just suddenly buggy?

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    Re: Plugin discussion

    I was told to post here by Agamemnon, so here it is.

    Start with no plugins except an auto-launched rules plugin which reads: "We're streamlining the server plugins to help fix hit-registration and server responsiveness, post on the forums at .... with suggestions if you'd like to see some added. Requesting xmenu will result in a professional iceman being hired on your behalf."

    Maybe keep /stuck and reserved slots to start with, and if you think it's necessary, the one that keeps people from DC nesting although it should be superfluous with the level of interactivity required on TG.

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