Natural Selection 2: Engine Change

**ImAWuss** · 07-14-2008, 09:05 AM

In the latest Unknown Worlds Podcast #32, it was announced that they are moving away from the Source Engine. How do you think this will effect the audience behind NS? I think it's a bold move, but they seem to have great ideas, and an understanding of what they want.

Do you support this move?

MagnaCentipede · 07-14-2008, 10:22 AM

For one, I'm certainly not going to try it out, despite many, or at least a couple, TG/TF2 players suggesting this game to me, because my gaming needs are currently satisfied, and thus am only interested in a new game if it is without a marginal cost to me.

However, the coders should use whichever engine is best suited for what they wish to create. By creating the best mod they can, the base-game's popularity is insignificant because people will buy the game for the mod as long as they know the mod is worth the price. On the other hand, a poor mod will struggle to earn a strong player base even if their engine game is popular.

FooKer · 07-14-2008, 08:57 PM

I like the change tbh. The fact that they can build it to their needs instead of modifying the engine to theirs is a good thing.

**TheSkudDestroyer** · 07-15-2008, 12:48 AM

It's very very...ambitious. My only concern is the current amount of work that's now meaningless by both devs and fans because of the switch.

It's for the... better... But there are always unforeseen consequences (Dr. Freeman...)

**Ferris Bueller** · 07-15-2008, 08:33 AM

This just means it'll be another 5 years before NS2 comes out.

FooKer · 07-15-2008, 10:29 PM

You'd be surprised actually, I think it's a bit further along then most people think.

Donat · 07-16-2008, 01:00 AM

Well they made decoda and such FOR source... so i don't know exactly how far along they are. It will be a long road of testing and bug solving i bet. many map makers are probly pissed. O well, just going to be playin spore, SCII and such till it comes out.

**Ferris Bueller** · 07-16-2008, 07:02 AM

Donat, every time I see your avatar, all can hear is "exterminate....exterminate..."
Dr. Who fans will understand the reference.

Katana- · 07-16-2008, 11:36 PM

it is a dalek isn't it? I never put 2 and 2 together, lol. +2 points for donat

i3ishop · 07-17-2008, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferris Bueller

This just means it'll be another 5 years before NS2 comes out.

I would greatly enjoy having a new NS game to play in which a competitive community can support itself once again. That being said, the facts are they just got an artist and a couple pieces of concept art quite recently. If they had started coding the game there would have been some indication, because that would give a lot of us an optimistic view on progress. Now they announce a new engine which takes years to configure and perfect. I have heard about larger companies spending four years or more to configure their first engine. So if NS2 is released in five years that would be good 'cause, now it seems they are trying to tell us we have no idea what we want to do and this game will not release. Think about the podcasts and how they come off as indecisive, not to mention lazy and unmotivated before getting frustrated by this post.

Katana- · 07-17-2008, 10:53 PM

A) Apparently Max has been working on this engine since 2005.
B) All the game play code they already had in place ports directly to new engine because it was all written in LUA, and they add their LUA hooks into this engine
C) their points about working with in the source engine are valid, Its a big piece of code, with all kinds of weird ins and outs.

I think the work load change is probably about the same between using source and this engine from what I can hear, but I share your fears. The engines you are talking about taking 4 years to develop are cutting edge designed to be broadly useful so they can license it over and over again. Many of the features in such an engine would not be utilized by the NS2 dev team because they don't have the budget for all the art assets. Also in my experience programing takes less time than art development, particularly if the team is careful about through testing during the entire build process. I think NS would really benefit from its own engine. A lot of stuff in NS seems like a dirty hack to get something to work in an engine in a way it totally wasn't designed for, namely commander mode. I haven't lost hope yet.

Katana- · 07-17-2008, 10:54 PM

A) Apparently Max has been working on this engine since 2005.
B) All the game play code they already had in place ports directly to new engine because it was all written in LUA, and they add their LUA hooks into this engine
C) their points about working with in the source engine are valid, Its a big piece of code, with all kinds of weird ins and outs.

I think the work load change is probably about the same between using source and this engine from what I can hear, but I share your fears. The engines you are talking about taking 4 years to develop are cutting edge designed to be broadly useful so they can license it over and over again. Many of the features in such an engine would not be utilized by the NS2 dev team because they don't have the budget for all the art assets. Also in my experience programing takes less time than art development, particularly if the team is careful about through testing during the entire build process. I think NS would really benefit from its own engine. A lot of stuff in NS seems like a dirty hack to get something to work in an engine in a way it totally wasn't designed for, namely commander mode. I haven't lost hope yet.

**Sirusblk** · 07-20-2008, 05:12 AM

So did they announce what engine they're gonna use? I'd probably guess the Unreal Engine but I'd rather not have everything dipped in Vaseline thank you very much

Donat · 07-20-2008, 11:14 AM

their making / using their own creation afaik

FooKer · 07-20-2008, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donat

Well they made decoda and such FOR source... so i don't know exactly how far along they are. It will be a long road of testing and bug solving i bet. many map makers are probly pissed. O well, just going to be playin spore, SCII and such till it comes out.

By the way... "Decoda is a professional development environment for debugging Lua script in your applications."

Not made FOR source

07-14-2008, 09:05 AM	#1 (permalink)
ImAWuss Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: New Hampshire, USA Age: 27 Posts: 560	Natural Selection 2: Engine Change In the latest Unknown Worlds Podcast #32, it was announced that they are moving away from the Source Engine. How do you think this will effect the audience behind NS? I think it's a bold move, but they seem to have great ideas, and an understanding of what they want. Do you support this move? __________________ Read the TG Primer, the TGNS Primer and most importantly, the TGNS Rules \| My Website!! birdie_in_Texas:ok..i feel stupid here..what is "NS"..? Wyzcrak:Natural Selection. Don't feel at a loss for not knowing the acronym. Feel at a loss for not having experienced the game.

07-14-2008, 10:22 AM	#2 (permalink)
MagnaCentipede Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,957	Re: Natural Selection 2: Engine Change For one, I'm certainly not going to try it out, despite many, or at least a couple, TG/TF2 players suggesting this game to me, because my gaming needs are currently satisfied, and thus am only interested in a new game if it is without a marginal cost to me. However, the coders should use whichever engine is best suited for what they wish to create. By creating the best mod they can, the base-game's popularity is insignificant because people will buy the game for the mod as long as they know the mod is worth the price. On the other hand, a poor mod will struggle to earn a strong player base even if their engine game is popular. __________________

07-14-2008, 08:57 PM	#3 (permalink)
FooKer Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 46	Re: Natural Selection 2: Engine Change I like the change tbh. The fact that they can build it to their needs instead of modifying the engine to theirs is a good thing.

07-15-2008, 12:48 AM	#4 (permalink)
TheSkudDestroyer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NY Posts: 3,225	Re: Natural Selection 2: Engine Change It's very very...ambitious. My only concern is the current amount of work that's now meaningless by both devs and fans because of the switch. It's for the... better... But there are always unforeseen consequences (Dr. Freeman...) __________________ \|TG-6th\|Skud BMT Graduate - 320th Training Squadron, Flight 024 - MSgt Romero - "Kids no more!" 30 weeks Keesler AFB, 1W031 - Weather

07-15-2008, 08:33 AM	#5 (permalink)
Ferris Bueller Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Orlando, FL Age: 26 Posts: 5,160	Re: Natural Selection 2: Engine Change This just means it'll be another 5 years before NS2 comes out. __________________ \|TG-6th\|Ferris Bueller Important TG Reading \| Support TG - Become a Supporting Member \| TacticalWiki - Your TG Guide Kicked/Banned? READ THIS FIRST! \| Complete list of TG Admins \| Think Someone Did A Good Job? Nominate Them For a Ribbon! Report Problem Players/Appeal Your Ban \| Learn TG - The TG Mentoring Program __________________ "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." -Lazarus Long

07-15-2008, 10:29 PM	#6 (permalink)
FooKer Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 46	Re: Natural Selection 2: Engine Change You'd be surprised actually, I think it's a bit further along then most people think.

07-16-2008, 01:00 AM	#7 (permalink)
Donat Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 263	Re: Natural Selection 2: Engine Change Well they made decoda and such FOR source... so i don't know exactly how far along they are. It will be a long road of testing and bug solving i bet. many map makers are probly pissed. O well, just going to be playin spore, SCII and such till it comes out. __________________

07-16-2008, 07:02 AM	#8 (permalink)
Ferris Bueller Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Orlando, FL Age: 26 Posts: 5,160	Re: Natural Selection 2: Engine Change Donat, every time I see your avatar, all can hear is "exterminate....exterminate..." Dr. Who fans will understand the reference. __________________ \|TG-6th\|Ferris Bueller Important TG Reading \| Support TG - Become a Supporting Member \| TacticalWiki - Your TG Guide Kicked/Banned? READ THIS FIRST! \| Complete list of TG Admins \| Think Someone Did A Good Job? Nominate Them For a Ribbon! Report Problem Players/Appeal Your Ban \| Learn TG - The TG Mentoring Program __________________ "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." -Lazarus Long

07-16-2008, 11:36 PM	#9 (permalink)
Katana- Join Date: Oct 2006 Age: 22 Posts: 14	Re: Natural Selection 2: Engine Change it is a dalek isn't it? I never put 2 and 2 together, lol. +2 points for donat

07-17-2008, 10:53 PM	#11 (permalink)
Katana- Join Date: Oct 2006 Age: 22 Posts: 14	Re: Natural Selection 2: Engine Change A) Apparently Max has been working on this engine since 2005. B) All the game play code they already had in place ports directly to new engine because it was all written in LUA, and they add their LUA hooks into this engine C) their points about working with in the source engine are valid, Its a big piece of code, with all kinds of weird ins and outs. I think the work load change is probably about the same between using source and this engine from what I can hear, but I share your fears. The engines you are talking about taking 4 years to develop are cutting edge designed to be broadly useful so they can license it over and over again. Many of the features in such an engine would not be utilized by the NS2 dev team because they don't have the budget for all the art assets. Also in my experience programing takes less time than art development, particularly if the team is careful about through testing during the entire build process. I think NS would really benefit from its own engine. A lot of stuff in NS seems like a dirty hack to get something to work in an engine in a way it totally wasn't designed for, namely commander mode. I haven't lost hope yet.

07-17-2008, 10:54 PM	#12 (permalink)
Katana- Join Date: Oct 2006 Age: 22 Posts: 14	Re: Natural Selection 2: Engine Change A) Apparently Max has been working on this engine since 2005. B) All the game play code they already had in place ports directly to new engine because it was all written in LUA, and they add their LUA hooks into this engine C) their points about working with in the source engine are valid, Its a big piece of code, with all kinds of weird ins and outs. I think the work load change is probably about the same between using source and this engine from what I can hear, but I share your fears. The engines you are talking about taking 4 years to develop are cutting edge designed to be broadly useful so they can license it over and over again. Many of the features in such an engine would not be utilized by the NS2 dev team because they don't have the budget for all the art assets. Also in my experience programing takes less time than art development, particularly if the team is careful about through testing during the entire build process. I think NS would really benefit from its own engine. A lot of stuff in NS seems like a dirty hack to get something to work in an engine in a way it totally wasn't designed for, namely commander mode. I haven't lost hope yet.

07-20-2008, 05:12 AM	#13 (permalink)
Sirusblk Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Orange County Age: 19 Posts: 1,111	Re: Natural Selection 2: Engine Change So did they announce what engine they're gonna use? I'd probably guess the Unreal Engine but I'd rather not have everything dipped in Vaseline thank you very much __________________

07-20-2008, 11:14 AM	#14 (permalink)
Donat Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 263	Re: Natural Selection 2: Engine Change their making / using their own creation afaik __________________

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