CO: respawn ticket system - Page 2

**Wyzcrak** · 10-01-2004, 09:24 PM

Ema, are you asking for respawns to be removed? I'm confused. End the game when all players are dead? Please explain further. I want to understand.

I have made changes to the plugin's design since last night. Before, each team was able to be given a configurable and straightforward number of tickets. The two teams could be given a different number. However, someone pointed out that the number of tickets needed to change based on how many players were in the game. I agreed. An 8v8 game is going to need many more tickets than a 2v3. I removed the straightforward ticket count allocation from the plugin's design.

So I came up with the following: each team has a multiplier which is applied to total players in the game and determines a product (mathematically speaking) which is the count of tickets that team will have for the round. Presently, that multiplier is set to 15 for both teams, but each team has its own ticket multiplier and they can be set independently.

So, if you have 5 players in the game, each team gets 75 tickets. If it's 8v8, each team gets 240 tickets. As you can imagine, the weighted nature of ticket costs per death can result in 240 tickets being spent faster than you might think in an 8v8. I don't know that I've found the sweet spot with the multiplier's present value (15), but I think the idea of the multiplier is a good way to determine the number of tickets for each team.

I'm not sure how to set the multiplier values such that the number of tickets in the round is just right. So, in an effort to come to a starting point, I've been trying to set the multiplier to a value that typically, and independent of player count, results in a number of tickets which make a round last about as long as our presently-preferred mp_combattime: 12.5 minutes.

**_Ender_** · 10-01-2004, 10:29 PM

What if it starts out with a 3 on 3 game and then more people start to join? Will the tickets go up to match the new players? And what if people leave? Will the tickets go down?

**Wyzcrak** · 10-02-2004, 12:01 AM

No, they won't.

If the tickets start small and the players increase, the tickets will rapidly be spent and the game won't last long.

If the tickets start large and the players decrease, it's likely that one of the teams will be left with a significant advantage from a tech standpoint, which means the tickets will also be spent pretty quickly.

**TheFeniX** · 10-02-2004, 01:25 AM

Xenocide is king in this game. Combined with the insanely fast alien respawn times, I can cause havok for the marine team at no disadvantage to myself or my team.

NothingMore. · 10-02-2004, 04:25 AM

Wyz, Ema means that when you run out of tickets on your team, you simply stop spawning, anyone that's left alive is still alive untill they die. When everyone on a team is dead and there are no tickets on that team, the game is over.

Also jp's are generally harder to kill than HA's, in combat anyway. (jp's = 3 ha's = 4 ??) The same could be said for fades and oni.

**Wyzcrak** · 10-02-2004, 01:08 PM

Thanks, NothingMore. I understand now. I like the idea and will implement it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ----paranoid----

Gorges should only be 1 ticket(or else that means gorging to heal the hive will cost 2 tckets each time)
skulk xeno 1 ticket
marine with GL should be 2 tickets

I want more feedback like this.

Emanon · 10-02-2004, 01:10 PM

Im not a big fan of the different classes costing different amount of tickets, can this be disabled?

Reason: Because of the current respawn system in CO.

**Wyzcrak** · 10-02-2004, 01:43 PM

It can't be "disabled," per se, but the cost for each class is completely configurable, so you can set the cost of all classes to 1 if you like.

**Wyzcrak** · 10-02-2004, 11:34 PM

I've completed the code that prevents spawning once all of your team's tickets are spent. That was a bitch to code, and I have some appreciation now for why Cheesy hasn't yet migrated his respawn system to AMXX 0.20.

Thank you, really, to everyone who tolerated my testing requirements. There was a lot to test, but it's working now. I want to see it work more before I gain too much confidence in it, but it seems to work well.

Also, lots of people have recommended that grenade launchers should cost an extra point. I'll change the plugin to add configuration options for upgrade/weapon costs, but only our discussing what those costs should be will keep the costs what they should be, so please provide feedback as you play.

**Wyzcrak** · 10-03-2004, 07:47 AM

The spawn-blocking code remains imperfect.

Most, but not all, weapons are now tracked and will result in a configurable number of tickets being lost when the person dies, in addition to the tickets lost due to their class. Alien upgrades are tracked similarly.

The display now shows the five most recent ticket losses next to the current total.

There has been feedback suggesting that the round should end only by tickets, not by structures being destroyed. The idea is that destroying the opposition's structure costs them a large amount of tickets, but it does not end the round.

Thoughts?

Mr. Krueger · 10-03-2004, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyzcrak

There has been feedback suggesting that the round should end only by tickets, not by structures being destroyed. The idea is that destroying the opposition's structure costs them a large amount of tickets, but it does not end the round.

Thoughts?

Actually, I really like that idea. How do Armories fall into that though? Do they cause a loss of points as well?

**Wyzcrak** · 10-03-2004, 03:11 PM

I don't see why not.

Zek · 10-03-2004, 03:46 PM

I'm not sure what that will change. Killing the structure will still be a risky strategy that puts the attackers at a disadvantage in ticket acquisition, and it will still win them the game if they succeed(judging by how relatively close the ticket count usually is).

**_Ender_** · 10-03-2004, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyzcrak

There has been feedback suggesting that the round should end only by tickets, not by structures being destroyed. The idea is that destroying the opposition's structure costs them a large amount of tickets, but it does not end the round.

Thoughts?

that sounds cool. When the hive is killed or the cc is killed, say 50% of the total tickets are taken right off the top but the game continues on until all tickets are gone.

**Wyzcrak** · 10-03-2004, 07:18 PM

Given the resources available to me as a plugin developer, it's looking very doubtful that I'll be able to have the CC or hive be destroyed without the round being ended by the game. Also, I cannot change the health of the structures when they get low, which was another idea I had for solving this problem.

I thought there might be some more advanced stuff I could learn from AMXX to handle this, but I'm told by developers less novice than myself that the very same advanced functionality that I would need to learn to handle the structures in this way is bugged in AMXX.

Perhaps I'll be able to include this when the server uses a future build of AMXX, and perhaps, if this idea were to ever make it into "the game," the devs could surely manage it directly.

10-01-2004, 09:24 PM	#16 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: CO: respawn ticket system Ema, are you asking for respawns to be removed? I'm confused. End the game when all players are dead? Please explain further. I want to understand. I have made changes to the plugin's design since last night. Before, each team was able to be given a configurable and straightforward number of tickets. The two teams could be given a different number. However, someone pointed out that the number of tickets needed to change based on how many players were in the game. I agreed. An 8v8 game is going to need many more tickets than a 2v3. I removed the straightforward ticket count allocation from the plugin's design. So I came up with the following: each team has a multiplier which is applied to total players in the game and determines a product (mathematically speaking) which is the count of tickets that team will have for the round. Presently, that multiplier is set to 15 for both teams, but each team has its own ticket multiplier and they can be set independently. So, if you have 5 players in the game, each team gets 75 tickets. If it's 8v8, each team gets 240 tickets. As you can imagine, the weighted nature of ticket costs per death can result in 240 tickets being spent faster than you might think in an 8v8. I don't know that I've found the sweet spot with the multiplier's present value (15), but I think the idea of the multiplier is a good way to determine the number of tickets for each team. I'm not sure how to set the multiplier values such that the number of tickets in the round is just right. So, in an effort to come to a starting point, I've been trying to set the multiplier to a value that typically, and independent of player count, results in a number of tickets which make a round last about as long as our presently-preferred mp_combattime: 12.5 minutes. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

10-01-2004, 10:29 PM	#17 (permalink)
_Ender_ Join Date: May 2003 Location: I am lost, if you know where I am then please feel free to tell me. Age: 29 Posts: 2,048	Re: CO: respawn ticket system What if it starts out with a 3 on 3 game and then more people start to join? Will the tickets go up to match the new players? And what if people leave? Will the tickets go down?

10-02-2004, 12:01 AM	#18 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: CO: respawn ticket system No, they won't. If the tickets start small and the players increase, the tickets will rapidly be spent and the game won't last long. If the tickets start large and the players decrease, it's likely that one of the teams will be left with a significant advantage from a tech standpoint, which means the tickets will also be spent pretty quickly. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

10-02-2004, 01:25 AM	#19 (permalink)
TheFeniX Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 26 Posts: 4,478	Re: CO: respawn ticket system Xenocide is king in this game. Combined with the insanely fast alien respawn times, I can cause havok for the marine team at no disadvantage to myself or my team. __________________ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - TheFeniX's Steam Profile TG's Team Fortress 2 Steam Group

10-02-2004, 04:25 AM	#20 (permalink)
NothingMore. Join Date: May 2003 Location: Where ever I really want to be. Posts: 1,007	Re: CO: respawn ticket system Wyz, Ema means that when you run out of tickets on your team, you simply stop spawning, anyone that's left alive is still alive untill they die. When everyone on a team is dead and there are no tickets on that team, the game is over. Also jp's are generally harder to kill than HA's, in combat anyway. (jp's = 3 ha's = 4 ??) The same could be said for fades and oni. __________________ - 52 Last edited by NothingMore.; 10-02-2004 at 06:18 AM.

10-02-2004, 01:10 PM	#22 (permalink)
Emanon Banned Join Date: May 2003 Age: 25 Posts: 1,249	Re: CO: respawn ticket system Im not a big fan of the different classes costing different amount of tickets, can this be disabled? Reason: Because of the current respawn system in CO.

10-02-2004, 01:43 PM	#23 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: CO: respawn ticket system It can't be "disabled," per se, but the cost for each class is completely configurable, so you can set the cost of all classes to 1 if you like. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

10-02-2004, 11:34 PM	#24 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: CO: respawn ticket system I've completed the code that prevents spawning once all of your team's tickets are spent. That was a bitch to code, and I have some appreciation now for why Cheesy hasn't yet migrated his respawn system to AMXX 0.20. Thank you, really, to everyone who tolerated my testing requirements. There was a lot to test, but it's working now. I want to see it work more before I gain too much confidence in it, but it seems to work well. Also, lots of people have recommended that grenade launchers should cost an extra point. I'll change the plugin to add configuration options for upgrade/weapon costs, but only our discussing what those costs should be will keep the costs what they should be, so please provide feedback as you play. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

10-03-2004, 07:47 AM	#25 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: CO: respawn ticket system The spawn-blocking code remains imperfect. Most, but not all, weapons are now tracked and will result in a configurable number of tickets being lost when the person dies, in addition to the tickets lost due to their class. Alien upgrades are tracked similarly. The display now shows the five most recent ticket losses next to the current total. There has been feedback suggesting that the round should end only by tickets, not by structures being destroyed. The idea is that destroying the opposition's structure costs them a large amount of tickets, but it does not end the round. Thoughts? __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

10-03-2004, 03:11 PM	#27 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: CO: respawn ticket system I don't see why not. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

10-03-2004, 03:46 PM	#28 (permalink)
Zek Join Date: Jun 2003 Age: 21 Posts: 597	Re: CO: respawn ticket system I'm not sure what that will change. Killing the structure will still be a risky strategy that puts the attackers at a disadvantage in ticket acquisition, and it will still win them the game if they succeed(judging by how relatively close the ticket count usually is).

10-03-2004, 07:18 PM	#30 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: CO: respawn ticket system Given the resources available to me as a plugin developer, it's looking very doubtful that I'll be able to have the CC or hive be destroyed without the round being ended by the game. Also, I cannot change the health of the structures when they get low, which was another idea I had for solving this problem. I thought there might be some more advanced stuff I could learn from AMXX to handle this, but I'm told by developers less novice than myself that the very same advanced functionality that I would need to learn to handle the structures in this way is bugged in AMXX. Perhaps I'll be able to include this when the server uses a future build of AMXX, and perhaps, if this idea were to ever make it into "the game," the devs could surely manage it directly. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

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