CO: respawn ticket system

**Wyzcrak** · 09-30-2004, 04:29 PM

http://www.modns.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=911

Check that out ( btw Ema.. creepy points to you for authoring thread number 911

).

Would you guys like to see something like this on the server? I can author it easily enough, and I think it might add something to CO.

Zek · 09-30-2004, 04:45 PM

I can't tell what the idea is since Emanon chose not to explain it.

HairyNevus · 09-30-2004, 04:58 PM

I think that's the respawn system from BF1942 (or style). I'd like it, you could make maps marine/alien bias have less tickets for that team to even it out. Rather than waiting for the mapper to solve it some creative way. You might want to make it disable-able for bot CO. Wouldn't last very long otherwise =\.

Zek, if it's what I think it is, every team starts with 'n' amount of tickets. Everytime you die, you lose a ticket. The team who loses all your tickets first loses the game. Emanon sort of explained it here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emanon

Spawn ticket system where each team has X tickets. Like DOD or RTCW:ET.

Pretty simple it would just have to count the spawns.

**Wyzcrak** · 09-30-2004, 04:59 PM

Well allow me to explain what I assume Ema to mean. Each team begins with a matching count of spawn tickets. Every time a member of a team dies, that team loses a spawn ticket. The first team to reach a spawn ticket count of zero loses at that moment.

We could also create it such that certain events give small amounts of tickets to the count for that team (that would be phase two of the design, I think).

Zek · 09-30-2004, 05:05 PM

That's what I thought too but I didn't think either DoD or RtCW:ET used that system. He should have said BF1942 if that's the case.

I don't really like the idea. It's much too unfair amongst the alien lifeforms. Good Fades and Onoses(or those with Redemption) very rarely die, whereas even superskulks have no choice but to take risks and could easily be one-shotted at any moment.

**Wyzcrak** · 09-30-2004, 05:40 PM

Interesting and centered on the concerns of the individual alien are your justification for not liking the idea. One of the greatest potentials I see in this is motivating a team to, well, play as one.

I could easily see this inspiring teams to assault and retreat in groups.

Zek · 09-30-2004, 06:20 PM

I think that's optimistic to say the least, but I'm not talking about selfish concerns. Under this system, a skulk is a detriment to the team(this especially goes for late joiners) because it loses tickets exponentially faster than anything else. Even an intelligent and skilled skulk will die to a lucky shotgunner, but that doesn't go for higher lifeforms. Evolving already has its advantages, I don't like the idea of making it a requirement. Currently, superskulks have the advantage of not having to re-evolve at spawn, but that would definitely be outweighed by this.

It might work if you use large ticket numbers and then increase the ticket loss when a higher evolution(or JP/HA) dies. Would this replace the time limit or work on top of it?

**Wyzcrak** · 09-30-2004, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zek

It might work if you use large ticket numbers and then increase the ticket loss when a higher evolution(or JP/HA) dies. Would this replace the time limit or work on top of it?

I was thinking this specifically when I read through the paragraph above it. I think this is a very good solution to start with when answering to a very valid point you raise.

I could create the plugin so that it sets ticket cost for death based on the class, be it alien or marine. That, combined with the possibility to start one team with more tickets, should allow a lot of flexibility when addressing balance concerns.

I don't see how the timelimit adds value to this situation. I'd say this would replace the time limt, which would be set to 00:00 (infiinite time) whenever this plugin is loaded.

It occurs to me that this would be attractive to those who feel the need to constantly bitch about spawn camping in CO as, under this system, killing the opposition directly contradicts your interest in needlessly dragging out the game (as the camper).

Stupid · 09-30-2004, 06:50 PM

any way to boost hive / cc hp to near infinity? or would you leave destroying those in as valid win methods?

idea sounds cool

**Wyzcrak** · 09-30-2004, 07:00 PM

I'm sure I can figure out a way to prevent damage to these structures, but I like the idea of leaving that element of play in the game. If the structures weren't killable, spawn camping would just about be the only reason left for one team to be in the opposition's spawn area, right?

Stupid · 09-30-2004, 08:27 PM

Don't prevent damage - just keep them from dying. I still like leaving them in to gain levels from.

Mr. Krueger · 10-01-2004, 12:38 AM

I'd be willing to get the ticket system a shot, but I don't really think it will work out too well. Especially if we don't have free exp to late joiners(is that plugin even working correctly? I've gotten it a few times in the middle of the game, if I was lagging behind I'd get a free level or two, but never on join). But I definately think the ticket number should be high, and the higher level the person is, the more tickets it should take off. Maybe not something as simple as 1 ticket per level, but...scale it somewhat.

Stupid · 10-01-2004, 02:40 AM

To answer the side issue - I got 4 levels when I joined an in-progress CO tonight.

**Wyzcrak** · 10-01-2004, 04:52 AM

I have authored an initial version of this plugin, which uses the following server variables (all changeable in the server configuration, though not in real-time as you play the match):

Code:

spawntickets_marine_tickets	100
spawntickets_alien_tickets	100
spawntickets_warning_percentage 20
spawntickets_skulk_ticketcost	1
spawntickets_gorge_ticketcost	2
spawntickets_lerk_ticketcost	2
spawntickets_fade_ticketcost	3
spawntickets_onos_ticketcost	4
spawntickets_marine_ticketcost	1
spawntickets_jetpack_ticketcost	3
spawntickets_heavy_ticketcost	4
spawntickets_gestate_ticketcost	1
spawntickets_tk_double		1

It operates per the basic design discussed here and only on CO maps. Presently, the plugin pauses itself immediately upon loading and will not affect gameplay at all. To enable it, an admin (not temps, sorry) must enable it using the following command:

amx_on spawntickets.amxx

This will enable the tickets gameplay mode for all subsequent CO rounds on that map. Once the map changes, the tickets gameplay mode is again disabled until it is turned on.

So, to test this out, ask an admin to enable it.

Please pay close attention to how the balance works, and think of ways we can improve it.

So far, it looks like the number of tickets given each team may need to be based somehow on the number of players in the game, as 8v8 will go through X number of tickets much faster than 3v4.

The 'tk_double' option above is a setting which can be turned on or off (the plugin has it off by default, but I have our server configured such that it is ON). When this setting is turned on, team kills cost the team twice the number of tickets that the death would have cost otherwise.

The 'warning_percentage' is simply the percentage of the starting tickets that a team must be taken to before all players will see that team's ticket count display as red and flashing.

Please try this gameplay mode out and provide feedback here.

Emanon · 10-01-2004, 05:47 PM

I think simplicity is needed to make this plugin to work.

Those late joiners shouldn't be going after a SGer alone. (LIKE NS) that player should be following a fade and picking up the extra.

Personally this plugin may setup to be played out just like NS. Marines stay ingroups to battle off lone fades/onos.

If you want to balance it just adjust the tickets for each team. Start at lets say 100-100 and if aliens need more go 100-120...........

Wyz, Please dont make the round end when there is 0 tickets left. Make it so that the round ends when all players are dead. Reason: A Fade could finish the game if there is like 4-10 marines. Shouldnt punish those who stayed alive. Plus a higher drama/excitement level.

Add additions and stuff later. Approach this like your tring to get the devs to add something to the game. First get them to add it then ask them to tweak it. Otherwise the programming mountain becomes too high.

09-30-2004, 04:29 PM	#1 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,139	CO: respawn ticket system http://www.modns.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=911 Check that out ( btw Ema.. creepy points to you for authoring thread number 911 ). Would you guys like to see something like this on the server? I can author it easily enough, and I think it might add something to CO. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

09-30-2004, 04:45 PM	#2 (permalink)
Zek Join Date: Jun 2003 Age: 21 Posts: 597	Re: CO: respawn ticket system I can't tell what the idea is since Emanon chose not to explain it.

09-30-2004, 04:59 PM	#4 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,139	Re: CO: respawn ticket system Well allow me to explain what I assume Ema to mean. Each team begins with a matching count of spawn tickets. Every time a member of a team dies, that team loses a spawn ticket. The first team to reach a spawn ticket count of zero loses at that moment. We could also create it such that certain events give small amounts of tickets to the count for that team (that would be phase two of the design, I think). __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

09-30-2004, 05:05 PM	#5 (permalink)
Zek Join Date: Jun 2003 Age: 21 Posts: 597	Re: CO: respawn ticket system That's what I thought too but I didn't think either DoD or RtCW:ET used that system. He should have said BF1942 if that's the case. I don't really like the idea. It's much too unfair amongst the alien lifeforms. Good Fades and Onoses(or those with Redemption) very rarely die, whereas even superskulks have no choice but to take risks and could easily be one-shotted at any moment.

09-30-2004, 05:40 PM	#6 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,139	Re: CO: respawn ticket system Interesting and centered on the concerns of the individual alien are your justification for not liking the idea. One of the greatest potentials I see in this is motivating a team to, well, play as one. I could easily see this inspiring teams to assault and retreat in groups. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

09-30-2004, 06:20 PM	#7 (permalink)
Zek Join Date: Jun 2003 Age: 21 Posts: 597	Re: CO: respawn ticket system I think that's optimistic to say the least, but I'm not talking about selfish concerns. Under this system, a skulk is a detriment to the team(this especially goes for late joiners) because it loses tickets exponentially faster than anything else. Even an intelligent and skilled skulk will die to a lucky shotgunner, but that doesn't go for higher lifeforms. Evolving already has its advantages, I don't like the idea of making it a requirement. Currently, superskulks have the advantage of not having to re-evolve at spawn, but that would definitely be outweighed by this. It might work if you use large ticket numbers and then increase the ticket loss when a higher evolution(or JP/HA) dies. Would this replace the time limit or work on top of it?

09-30-2004, 06:50 PM	#9 (permalink)
Stupid Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: God's Country - Texas Posts: 637	Re: CO: respawn ticket system any way to boost hive / cc hp to near infinity? or would you leave destroying those in as valid win methods? idea sounds cool __________________ Former TGNS admin until WoW blinded me with flashy lights.

09-30-2004, 07:00 PM	#10 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,139	Re: CO: respawn ticket system I'm sure I can figure out a way to prevent damage to these structures, but I like the idea of leaving that element of play in the game. If the structures weren't killable, spawn camping would just about be the only reason left for one team to be in the opposition's spawn area, right? __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

09-30-2004, 08:27 PM	#11 (permalink)
Stupid Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: God's Country - Texas Posts: 637	Re: CO: respawn ticket system Don't prevent damage - just keep them from dying. I still like leaving them in to gain levels from. __________________ Former TGNS admin until WoW blinded me with flashy lights.

10-01-2004, 12:38 AM	#12 (permalink)
Mr. Krueger Join Date: Aug 2004 Age: 23 Posts: 85	Re: CO: respawn ticket system I'd be willing to get the ticket system a shot, but I don't really think it will work out too well. Especially if we don't have free exp to late joiners(is that plugin even working correctly? I've gotten it a few times in the middle of the game, if I was lagging behind I'd get a free level or two, but never on join). But I definately think the ticket number should be high, and the higher level the person is, the more tickets it should take off. Maybe not something as simple as 1 ticket per level, but...scale it somewhat.

10-01-2004, 02:40 AM	#13 (permalink)
Stupid Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: God's Country - Texas Posts: 637	Re: CO: respawn ticket system To answer the side issue - I got 4 levels when I joined an in-progress CO tonight. __________________ Former TGNS admin until WoW blinded me with flashy lights.

10-01-2004, 04:52 AM	#14 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,139	Re: CO: respawn ticket system I have authored an initial version of this plugin, which uses the following server variables (all changeable in the server configuration, though not in real-time as you play the match): Code: spawntickets_marine_tickets 100 spawntickets_alien_tickets 100 spawntickets_warning_percentage 20 spawntickets_skulk_ticketcost 1 spawntickets_gorge_ticketcost 2 spawntickets_lerk_ticketcost 2 spawntickets_fade_ticketcost 3 spawntickets_onos_ticketcost 4 spawntickets_marine_ticketcost 1 spawntickets_jetpack_ticketcost 3 spawntickets_heavy_ticketcost 4 spawntickets_gestate_ticketcost 1 spawntickets_tk_double 1 It operates per the basic design discussed here and only on CO maps. Presently, the plugin pauses itself immediately upon loading and will not affect gameplay at all. To enable it, an admin (not temps, sorry) must enable it using the following command: amx_on spawntickets.amxx This will enable the tickets gameplay mode for all subsequent CO rounds on that map. Once the map changes, the tickets gameplay mode is again disabled until it is turned on. So, to test this out, ask an admin to enable it. Please pay close attention to how the balance works, and think of ways we can improve it. So far, it looks like the number of tickets given each team may need to be based somehow on the number of players in the game, as 8v8 will go through X number of tickets much faster than 3v4. The 'tk_double' option above is a setting which can be turned on or off (the plugin has it off by default, but I have our server configured such that it is ON). When this setting is turned on, team kills cost the team twice the number of tickets that the death would have cost otherwise. The 'warning_percentage' is simply the percentage of the starting tickets that a team must be taken to before all players will see that team's ticket count display as red and flashing. Please try this gameplay mode out and provide feedback here. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

10-01-2004, 05:47 PM	#15 (permalink)
Emanon Banned Join Date: May 2003 Age: 25 Posts: 1,249	Re: CO: respawn ticket system I think simplicity is needed to make this plugin to work. Those late joiners shouldn't be going after a SGer alone. (LIKE NS) that player should be following a fade and picking up the extra. Personally this plugin may setup to be played out just like NS. Marines stay ingroups to battle off lone fades/onos. If you want to balance it just adjust the tickets for each team. Start at lets say 100-100 and if aliens need more go 100-120........... Wyz, Please dont make the round end when there is 0 tickets left. Make it so that the round ends when all players are dead. Reason: A Fade could finish the game if there is like 4-10 marines. Shouldnt punish those who stayed alive. Plus a higher drama/excitement level. Add additions and stuff later. Approach this like your tring to get the devs to add something to the game. First get them to add it then ask them to tweak it. Otherwise the programming mountain becomes too high.

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