Odd man (marine) plugin.

blackjackel · 11-08-2004, 07:10 AM

Today i decided i finally wanted to get around to coding the odd-man marine plugin, but as many programmers (at least alot of the ones i know) say: "why do it when its already been done?"

So naturally i went out looking to see if it has already been done to save me the trouble, and found out that it indeed has! (been done that is)

Didnt take very long to find either:

http://www.modns.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=22

This plugin should force the odd man into the (marine/alien) team. It is a metamod plugin, which is very good since metamod plugins would take less resources (particularly CPU stress) when running (and i cant make metamod plugins).

Check it out wyz, and let me know whats up, i'd love to see this on the server.

**Wyzcrak** · 11-08-2004, 12:59 PM

We tried this plugin in February.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyzcrak

The "mp_limitteams 1" server configuration says that no one can join a team if it puts that team ahead by more than one player. This has been in effect on our server for some time now. This is nothing new.

"OddMan" is a plugin that forces players joining a game with even teams into the marine team. mp_limitteams + OddMan means players joining a team will always keep things the way we want them.

It was quickly disabled while we, as a community, and still figuring out 3.0 balance, debated the merit of marines having the extra player. Clearly, we decided that marines having the extra player was best.

I wonder why I never re-enabled this plugin. I think it prevented the random teams solution from functioning properly, but I'm not sure.

I'll evaluate this plugin in the near future and see how and where it fits the server today.

Thank you for the effort, bj. Nice find.

**Wyzcrak** · 12-07-2004, 03:14 AM

I have installed this plugin on the server.

A player joining a team when teams are even will be required to join the marines.

It's enabled on CO, too.. not because I care about CO, but because I don't.. not even enough to make special accomodations regarding this plugin.

The use of this plugin is contingent on it not causing problems in any way.

Please provide feedback (especially from you folks using amx_random, which I think might be harmed by this).

**_Ender_** · 12-08-2004, 08:42 PM

I dont like this plugin. I want the freedom to choose my own team in the beginning of the game.

So thumbs down for me

HairyNevus · 12-08-2004, 09:01 PM

I like it, but maybe instead of forcing someone who went for alien to go marine, simply block it? There was one case when marines had the extra so I went alien then a marine left so...I had to go marine

. Then, he came back and went alien.

realmikey · 12-08-2004, 11:06 PM

Yeah, not a big fan myself. Hairy's suggestion is good, but I second Ender's complaint.

blackjackel · 12-09-2004, 01:58 AM

Well i think it goes without saying that i am a fan of the plugin, but i also think hairyNevus's comment was great...

MAybe ill take a look at the sourcecode and give it a try at reprogramming it to work the way hairynevus suggests... that is if you approve wyz...

(not gona waste my time doing something not approved on, so wont even start till you give the OK)

**Wyzcrak** · 12-09-2004, 02:08 AM

Let me give it a shot first. This is a very easy plugin for me to write in Small.

**zibalatz** · 12-24-2004, 01:48 AM

The way the current plugin seems to work is as follows:

Let's call M the number of marine players and A the number of alien players.
- If a player chooses to join Aliens, and M <= A, the plugin intervenes and the player is automatically added to the marine team.
Else, if M > A, the plugin passes this through to NS and it handles the join normally.
- If a player chooses to join Marines, the plugin passes this through to NS and it handles the join normally.

What this means is that when a player chooses to join Marines and M > A, when NS handles the join normally it blocks the join and informs the player that the selected team is full, etc, etc. Wouldn't it be better for this to also be the behaviour of the balancing plugin when the player chooses Aliens and A >= M?

I think it would be better this way because:
- The current method makes it difficult to choose the team you want to play on. It is hard to choose to play on the alien team even if the necessary number of players do want to play rines. Before the match starts, you have to hold up the scoreboard and time your join appropriately. Either that or you repeatedly hit F2, F4, F2, F4, etc.
- Informing people of the fact that marines get the extra before they join the game will make them aware of the steps that are taken on this server to improve gameplay. Also, if extra rines are needed midgame, players may already be aware of it when they are asked to switch.
- For someone unaware of the plugin, it's confusing that joining the alien team sometimes causes you to join marines. One wonders if there's a bug in the program, server, map, or whatnot.

Thoughts?

Zek · 12-24-2004, 02:47 AM

I agree, the way it works now is a real nuisance. It should prevent people from giving aliens the extra man but it should NOT force them to marines.

**TheFeniX** · 12-24-2004, 02:56 AM

The only problem I've seen with this plug-in is that people F4 a lot before a game because they don't want to go marine during a combat game... go figure.

jackel · 12-24-2004, 03:42 AM

yeah, its a pain..
i would prefer to have people ask other people to switch.. most people listen anyways. i cant remember when i last saw someone say no.

**Wyzcrak** · 12-24-2004, 07:04 AM

I've modded the server to enable this 15 seconds after a round begins and disable it when a round ends.

It doesn't help the problem Zek mentioned, but it does help the problem Fenix mentioned.

Please continue to provide feedback.

LazyEye · 12-24-2004, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyzcrak

I've modded the server to enable this 15 seconds after a round begins and disable it when a round ends.

It doesn't help the problem Zek mentioned, but it does help the problem Fenix mentioned.

Please continue to provide feedback.

Nice changes to this plug-in, I can live with it now. I still think we can even the teams with out the plug-in.

**Wyzcrak** · 12-24-2004, 02:24 PM

We can.

The idea was to make this a convenience.

As it stands modded, the only problem I have with this plugin is that which Zek mentioned: it's damn confusing to someone who goes to join aliens when marines get the player. Confusion is irritating to a player, much less automated revocation of personal choice.

But, if the plugin is making a newly-joining player go marines, they're going to have to go marines eventually anyway, so I'm not too worried about that as long as the public outcry doesn't grow too loud.

As is stands now, the plugin will serve very useful in preventing at all the seemingly countless scenario of someone new joining the server, going aliens, and then getting blasted by countless people to go marines.

I think I might put a little message on someone's screen every time they join a team that tells them marines get the extra player. Not only does it educate players new to the server as they're joining, but it would give them explanation in those times that they choose aliens and find themselves a marine.

11-08-2004, 07:10 AM	#1 (permalink)
blackjackel Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 120	Odd man (marine) plugin. Today i decided i finally wanted to get around to coding the odd-man marine plugin, but as many programmers (at least alot of the ones i know) say: "why do it when its already been done?" So naturally i went out looking to see if it has already been done to save me the trouble, and found out that it indeed has! (been done that is) Didnt take very long to find either: http://www.modns.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=22 This plugin should force the odd man into the (marine/alien) team. It is a metamod plugin, which is very good since metamod plugins would take less resources (particularly CPU stress) when running (and i cant make metamod plugins). Check it out wyz, and let me know whats up, i'd love to see this on the server.

12-07-2004, 03:14 AM	#3 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: Odd man (marine) plugin. I have installed this plugin on the server. A player joining a team when teams are even will be required to join the marines. It's enabled on CO, too.. not because I care about CO, but because I don't.. not even enough to make special accomodations regarding this plugin. The use of this plugin is contingent on it not causing problems in any way. Please provide feedback (especially from you folks using amx_random, which I think might be harmed by this). __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

12-08-2004, 08:42 PM	#4 (permalink)
_Ender_ Join Date: May 2003 Location: I am lost, if you know where I am then please feel free to tell me. Age: 29 Posts: 2,048	Re: Odd man (marine) plugin. I dont like this plugin. I want the freedom to choose my own team in the beginning of the game. So thumbs down for me

12-08-2004, 09:01 PM	#5 (permalink)
HairyNevus Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN Age: 20 Posts: 869	Re: Odd man (marine) plugin. I like it, but maybe instead of forcing someone who went for alien to go marine, simply block it? There was one case when marines had the extra so I went alien then a marine left so...I had to go marine . Then, he came back and went alien.

12-08-2004, 11:06 PM	#6 (permalink)
realmikey Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 63	Re: Odd man (marine) plugin. Yeah, not a big fan myself. Hairy's suggestion is good, but I second Ender's complaint.

12-09-2004, 01:58 AM	#7 (permalink)
blackjackel Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 120	Re: Odd man (marine) plugin. Well i think it goes without saying that i am a fan of the plugin, but i also think hairyNevus's comment was great... MAybe ill take a look at the sourcecode and give it a try at reprogramming it to work the way hairynevus suggests... that is if you approve wyz... (not gona waste my time doing something not approved on, so wont even start till you give the OK) __________________ Prejudice sucks: Do not judge me by my past, for I have changed. DarkHunter == Blackjackel.

12-09-2004, 02:08 AM	#8 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: Odd man (marine) plugin. Let me give it a shot first. This is a very easy plugin for me to write in Small. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

12-24-2004, 01:48 AM	#9 (permalink)
zibalatz Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 899	Re: Odd man (marine) plugin. The way the current plugin seems to work is as follows: Let's call M the number of marine players and A the number of alien players. - If a player chooses to join Aliens, and M <= A, the plugin intervenes and the player is automatically added to the marine team. Else, if M > A, the plugin passes this through to NS and it handles the join normally. - If a player chooses to join Marines, the plugin passes this through to NS and it handles the join normally. What this means is that when a player chooses to join Marines and M > A, when NS handles the join normally it blocks the join and informs the player that the selected team is full, etc, etc. Wouldn't it be better for this to also be the behaviour of the balancing plugin when the player chooses Aliens and A >= M? I think it would be better this way because: - The current method makes it difficult to choose the team you want to play on. It is hard to choose to play on the alien team even if the necessary number of players do want to play rines. Before the match starts, you have to hold up the scoreboard and time your join appropriately. Either that or you repeatedly hit F2, F4, F2, F4, etc. - Informing people of the fact that marines get the extra before they join the game will make them aware of the steps that are taken on this server to improve gameplay. Also, if extra rines are needed midgame, players may already be aware of it when they are asked to switch. - For someone unaware of the plugin, it's confusing that joining the alien team sometimes causes you to join marines. One wonders if there's a bug in the program, server, map, or whatnot. Thoughts?

12-24-2004, 02:47 AM	#10 (permalink)
Zek Join Date: Jun 2003 Age: 21 Posts: 597	Re: Odd man (marine) plugin. I agree, the way it works now is a real nuisance. It should prevent people from giving aliens the extra man but it should NOT force them to marines.

12-24-2004, 02:56 AM	#11 (permalink)
TheFeniX Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 26 Posts: 4,478	Re: Odd man (marine) plugin. The only problem I've seen with this plug-in is that people F4 a lot before a game because they don't want to go marine during a combat game... go figure. __________________ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - TheFeniX's Steam Profile TG's Team Fortress 2 Steam Group

12-24-2004, 03:42 AM	#12 (permalink)
jackel Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 815	Re: Odd man (marine) plugin. yeah, its a pain.. i would prefer to have people ask other people to switch.. most people listen anyways. i cant remember when i last saw someone say no.

12-24-2004, 07:04 AM	#13 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: Odd man (marine) plugin. I've modded the server to enable this 15 seconds after a round begins and disable it when a round ends. It doesn't help the problem Zek mentioned, but it does help the problem Fenix mentioned. Please continue to provide feedback. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

12-24-2004, 02:24 PM	#15 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: Odd man (marine) plugin. We can. The idea was to make this a convenience. As it stands modded, the only problem I have with this plugin is that which Zek mentioned: it's damn confusing to someone who goes to join aliens when marines get the player. Confusion is irritating to a player, much less automated revocation of personal choice. But, if the plugin is making a newly-joining player go marines, they're going to have to go marines eventually anyway, so I'm not too worried about that as long as the public outcry doesn't grow too loud. As is stands now, the plugin will serve very useful in preventing at all the seemingly countless scenario of someone new joining the server, going aliens, and then getting blasted by countless people to go marines. I think I might put a little message on someone's screen every time they join a team that tells them marines get the extra player. Not only does it educate players new to the server as they're joining, but it would give them explanation in those times that they choose aliens and find themselves a marine. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

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