How about some new alien tactics? - Page 2

jackel · 11-15-2004, 01:29 AM

AHAHHAHAHHAHA
very nice fenix..
(the plugin would be interesting.. marines can defend their nodes w/o being physically at them.. hm)

**_Ender_** · 11-15-2004, 01:36 AM

.... the marines have a way to protect their nodes...

realmikey · 11-15-2004, 01:48 AM

I've been trying to play a lot more aliens than rines because 1) I like it better, 2) I feel I'm better at it, and 3) (most importantly to me) I feel like I make a difference on the team.

My strategy: Find a good res node, cap it, back to skulk, try to get some RFK and protect our res. Eventually I re-gorge and drop either chambers or hive 2. Usually I go back to skulk and do what i can to help our fade and scout around.

Any time I hear a welder sound or phasegate, I say something. I know at least once or twice the past couple nights it has helped out, but most of the time it's probably redundant and I just wasn't listening well enough.

My big problem is still knowing where I am on the maps. A lot of times someone will say "Cargo" and unless it's one of the three hives, I spent 15-20 seconds looking for it on my minimap.

One issue that has especially gotten on my nerves the last couple of nights is the attitude of some on the alien teams. Just because you don't understand exactly why someone is doing something doesn't necessarily mean that it's stupid. A couple nights ago we had to take down a D-Chamber at a hive that had just been destroyed so that I could re-drop that hive. It wasn't letting me drop the hive because the DC was so close. We were taking it down and someone was yelling over comms, ignoring what we had to say.

Yelling on comms rarely accomplishes anything. YELLING at me to drop the hive when I just said I would isn't going to get me there faster. Sometimes I still get lost on maps. Sometimes the minimap isn't perfectly clear (this goes for marine commanders and the alien team) and sometimes I just can't tell that one way is faster than the other. Just be patient sometimes.

When we are trying to defend a hive though, it's probably not in your best interests to try to take out an RT. Extra hive > lost res for the rines.

**TheFeniX** · 11-15-2004, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackel

(the plugin would be interesting.. marines can defend their nodes w/o being physically at them.. hm)

And aliens can't?

Marine:
15 res for RT.
30 res for elec.

Alien:
15 res for RT
30 res for 3 OCs
30 res for 2 OCs and 1 DC
30 res for 2 OCs and 1 MC
30 res for 2 OCs and 1 SC

Let's do some basic math, for 30 res to spend with 4 possible chambers (sens, mov, defense, offense), that would be 4*4*4. That gives the aliens 64 possible combinations (although not all would be useful like 3 sens) of defense for that node for the same cost of what the commander has to pay.

The fact remains that electrification isn't that viable (as is dropping OCs at a node). You must rely on your troops for defense. This is an FPS, not a "drop lame everywhere and let auto-fire do all your work."

lordflametide · 11-15-2004, 02:34 AM

While I agree that electrification is not viable...the actual cost to defend a node "equally well" on the alien team is higher. Because of how the res model works, you have to throw in an ADDITIONAL 20-30 res for the gorge costs of 2-3 people to drop 30 res worth of chambers + RT. Marine electrification all comes from the same pool.

**_Ender_** · 11-15-2004, 02:45 AM

At least when the marines elec the rt, it will stay up for however long it takes for the aliens to get a fade where OCs will usually go down fairly easily (a couple of marines can LMG OCs down in a couple of seconds). Now the aliens could always use a skulk with either a gorge for healing or regen, but that will just take too long (it already takes forever for the skulkto take a node down) and put 1 player (2 if one is the gorge healing) out of the game for a little bit.

I seriously think they need to pump up the OCs a little bit more. As it is right now, with armor 1 the marines can walk through them. You need to block off hallways for them do any real damage (nothing like walking around a corner and seeing 9 OCs shooting at you all at one time).

I have also noticed that a lot of people dont know how to place OCs on this server. They put them in places that they could easily be seiged out. And, IMHO once again, putting a lot of OCs in a hive is a risk since usually the marines will just seige them out anyway.

realmikey · 11-15-2004, 12:47 PM

The minimum cost to put even one OC at a RT is 10 for gorging, 15 for the RT, and then another 10 for the OC. That's all from the same player. 35 res from one player's pool to put a RT and one OC that probably won't kill a marine. I mean, electrifying a node guarantees that a skulk will die well before trying to take it out.

With an OC, i imagine a marine can hide behind the other side of the RT to make sure he doesn't get hit. Or he can grab a buddy and take it down no prob.

Not to mention, if the gorge is sitting there after dropping his RT (he's got about 3 res, so it'll take what...30 seconds to get enough for that OC at the beginning of the game?) then 1) he's not attacking marines, 2) he's not attacking marine RTs, and 3) he's not getting RFK.

I think early in the game there is no incentive for the aliens to work together. You don't get RFK if you're with another skulk that kills a marine, do you? I'm honestly not sure about that, but I rarely see other skulks working with each other early on.

**TheFeniX** · 11-15-2004, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Ender_

I have also noticed that a lot of people dont know how to place OCs on this server. They put them in places that they could easily be seiged out. And, IMHO once again, putting a lot of OCs in a hive is a risk since usually the marines will just seige them out anyway.

And a load of marines on the TG server don't know basic OC destruction or stealth. You don't walk up to an OC and cram your LMG barrel into it. You stay back and shoot it from a distance if there is more than one of you. If you're alone, you position yourself between it and a wall, the shoot one of the "tentacles." It dies, and you take no damage. I always laugh and the idiot who has full ammo, but decides to knife the damn OC.

Electrification costs the marines almost any upgrade early game. Drop a sens by RTs, get focus, go to town.

**Wyzcrak** · 11-15-2004, 01:13 PM

I always chuckle as I knife the res node when I'm on the side of the RT opposite the lone OC. Not only am I killing the RT without taking damage, but FF is causing the OC to damage the RT I'm knifing as it fires at me.

It's icing on the cake when the comm is smart enough to drop our RT immediately. I build, the RT takes negligible damage, and I move farther from the OC than is the RT when I'm finished building. The OC prioritizes the RT while I destroy the OC.

YAY!

**ImAWuss** · 11-15-2004, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFeniX

Drop a sens by RTs, get focus, go to town.

Hrmm... I like that.. This would work well on a double res map. Good way to lock down double early.

**TheFeniX** · 11-15-2004, 02:20 PM

So, the communication issue aside: there's also a prevalence of different commanding styles on the TG server. Based upon the way the res war is going, the commander will adjust his tactics accordingly.

Conversely, the aliens are STILL using the same tactics even with unchained. The players name of who is going to drop the hive/upgrades/fade. If they get a good fade off the bat (Lazyeye, custom, etc) and the marines don't get a good block or lucky ambush, then the aliens are looking good. But once they take that fade hit, the momentum seems to be gone. The only real divergence I've seen is the multiple fade strat, which either wins the game for the aliens, or looses it for them.

I constantly see skulks run by un-eleced RTs on the mini-map to engage marines in an open hallway, then die. I've brought this up in another thread, but in the larger scope of things, loosing one skulk to defend on a hive rush so he can kill undefended RTs isn't going to matter that much. If they get the hive down, but lost 3 RTs, they're hurting bad. If the hive stays up, then you've just gained an advantage rather than breaking even.

The aliens have to be flat-out better all-around to beat a good marine team. Each player must take it upon himself to analyze the situation and react accordingly. Conversely, with 3-4 members on my marine team, we can dish out massed damaged. One or two stupid pubs won't affect us nearly as much as the same problem on the alien team.

Paranoid knows this better than I do, but rarely do you get a harmonious voice chat on the alien team when everyone thinks they're in charge. I can always tell my detractors to shut up when I'm commanding.

We should take time in this thread (or another) to hammer out some other good effective alien strats besides the "mog teh n00b f4de died, waht do we to now?!"

PS: I do tend to miss the one gorge commander back in 1.4. I'm not sure which is inherently better.

**Wyzcrak** · 11-15-2004, 03:37 PM

As marines, it's very useful to get phase tech early. It helps with map control. I've recently coordinated efforts on the alien to make an effort to keep that remote hive flashing pretty often so that spawning aliens can quickly cross half the map with a movement chamber.

It needs work, but it helps the aliens move around the map at the 3 minute mark.

lordflametide · 11-15-2004, 04:45 PM

I still don't believe in phase tech as is. I fully believe that phase gates need to be two-way again (aliens being able to use them). If the marine team wants to overcome its natural DISADVANTAGE of movement, there needs to be a higher cost associated with it. Jetpacks are expensive now, thats fine. Phase gates are 15 research, 20 obs that you'd use anyway, and 15 per gate, to instantly travel marines from point A to B. Having to actually DEFEND your phase locations would be appropriate compensation for the mobility, I believe.

That being so...mines are too expensive, and turrets aren't an overly viable option for phase gate defense. If you want to fix one, you have to change the other.

/shrug.

jackel · 11-15-2004, 06:41 PM

Quote:

PS: I do tend to miss the one gorge commander back in 1.4. I'm not sure which is inherently better.

haha, i remember first playing 2.0 and being like.. YES i killed the gorge.. oh wait, it doesnt matter anymore

Zephyr · 11-15-2004, 06:53 PM

Just a thought on that whole two-way phasegate thingy. I think that would be a really really good idea and add an interesting development to the gameplay. Give phasegates an on/off switch too so the commander can deactivate a phasegate on one side. You try to phase rush a hive and the aliens know? suddenly the MARINES are phase spawn killed by two skulks whom wreck general havok, followed by a fade to just cause intense confusion. If marines want to leave a phase gate right by an electrified node it should be perfectly viable that the skulks make a diving rush for it and send themselves straight to their base...unless of course the commander turns off the base phasegate. If your on map and the aliens know a phase is being built outside their hive, they should be able to get two skulks to another known phasegate position because the base gate will have to be opened and the skulks can arrive, maybe even with a phasekill, and wreck havok on a base, causing a complete turnaround on a rush. This can easily be countered by turrents, which are becoming obsolete because a good portion of TG's community consider themselves "above" the base rusher unless its to hit an observatory. I just favor the marines having to do a bit more work to maintain their phase network, they can electrify nodes and teleport wherever they need go at any given time, they should have to build a turret factory to protect their interests at phasegates. Anyway to script this as a plugin to at least try and see if it can shift power back to the aliens? Feel free to flame im not even really conscious, I just think it would be a good check on the marine dominance we see now...
-Zephyr

11-15-2004, 01:29 AM	#16 (permalink)
jackel Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 815	Re: How about some new alien tactics? AHAHHAHAHHAHA very nice fenix.. (the plugin would be interesting.. marines can defend their nodes w/o being physically at them.. hm)

11-15-2004, 01:36 AM	#17 (permalink)
_Ender_ Join Date: May 2003 Location: I am lost, if you know where I am then please feel free to tell me. Age: 29 Posts: 2,048	Re: How about some new alien tactics? .... the marines have a way to protect their nodes...

11-15-2004, 01:48 AM	#18 (permalink)
realmikey Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 63	Re: How about some new alien tactics? I've been trying to play a lot more aliens than rines because 1) I like it better, 2) I feel I'm better at it, and 3) (most importantly to me) I feel like I make a difference on the team. My strategy: Find a good res node, cap it, back to skulk, try to get some RFK and protect our res. Eventually I re-gorge and drop either chambers or hive 2. Usually I go back to skulk and do what i can to help our fade and scout around. Any time I hear a welder sound or phasegate, I say something. I know at least once or twice the past couple nights it has helped out, but most of the time it's probably redundant and I just wasn't listening well enough. My big problem is still knowing where I am on the maps. A lot of times someone will say "Cargo" and unless it's one of the three hives, I spent 15-20 seconds looking for it on my minimap. One issue that has especially gotten on my nerves the last couple of nights is the attitude of some on the alien teams. Just because you don't understand exactly why someone is doing something doesn't necessarily mean that it's stupid. A couple nights ago we had to take down a D-Chamber at a hive that had just been destroyed so that I could re-drop that hive. It wasn't letting me drop the hive because the DC was so close. We were taking it down and someone was yelling over comms, ignoring what we had to say. Yelling on comms rarely accomplishes anything. YELLING at me to drop the hive when I just said I would isn't going to get me there faster. Sometimes I still get lost on maps. Sometimes the minimap isn't perfectly clear (this goes for marine commanders and the alien team) and sometimes I just can't tell that one way is faster than the other. Just be patient sometimes. When we are trying to defend a hive though, it's probably not in your best interests to try to take out an RT. Extra hive > lost res for the rines.

11-15-2004, 02:34 AM	#20 (permalink)
lordflametide Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA Age: 23 Posts: 189	Re: How about some new alien tactics? While I agree that electrification is not viable...the actual cost to defend a node "equally well" on the alien team is higher. Because of how the res model works, you have to throw in an ADDITIONAL 20-30 res for the gorge costs of 2-3 people to drop 30 res worth of chambers + RT. Marine electrification all comes from the same pool. __________________ --T3C[]-[]N0 []v[]UFF1N The vending machine originated in Egypt in 215 B.C. Learn somethin new everyday, dontcha?

11-15-2004, 02:45 AM	#21 (permalink)
_Ender_ Join Date: May 2003 Location: I am lost, if you know where I am then please feel free to tell me. Age: 29 Posts: 2,048	Re: How about some new alien tactics? At least when the marines elec the rt, it will stay up for however long it takes for the aliens to get a fade where OCs will usually go down fairly easily (a couple of marines can LMG OCs down in a couple of seconds). Now the aliens could always use a skulk with either a gorge for healing or regen, but that will just take too long (it already takes forever for the skulkto take a node down) and put 1 player (2 if one is the gorge healing) out of the game for a little bit. I seriously think they need to pump up the OCs a little bit more. As it is right now, with armor 1 the marines can walk through them. You need to block off hallways for them do any real damage (nothing like walking around a corner and seeing 9 OCs shooting at you all at one time). I have also noticed that a lot of people dont know how to place OCs on this server. They put them in places that they could easily be seiged out. And, IMHO once again, putting a lot of OCs in a hive is a risk since usually the marines will just seige them out anyway.

11-15-2004, 12:47 PM	#22 (permalink)
realmikey Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 63	Re: How about some new alien tactics? The minimum cost to put even one OC at a RT is 10 for gorging, 15 for the RT, and then another 10 for the OC. That's all from the same player. 35 res from one player's pool to put a RT and one OC that probably won't kill a marine. I mean, electrifying a node guarantees that a skulk will die well before trying to take it out. With an OC, i imagine a marine can hide behind the other side of the RT to make sure he doesn't get hit. Or he can grab a buddy and take it down no prob. Not to mention, if the gorge is sitting there after dropping his RT (he's got about 3 res, so it'll take what...30 seconds to get enough for that OC at the beginning of the game?) then 1) he's not attacking marines, 2) he's not attacking marine RTs, and 3) he's not getting RFK. I think early in the game there is no incentive for the aliens to work together. You don't get RFK if you're with another skulk that kills a marine, do you? I'm honestly not sure about that, but I rarely see other skulks working with each other early on.

11-15-2004, 01:13 PM	#24 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: How about some new alien tactics? I always chuckle as I knife the res node when I'm on the side of the RT opposite the lone OC. Not only am I killing the RT without taking damage, but FF is causing the OC to damage the RT I'm knifing as it fires at me. It's icing on the cake when the comm is smart enough to drop our RT immediately. I build, the RT takes negligible damage, and I move farther from the OC than is the RT when I'm finished building. The OC prioritizes the RT while I destroy the OC. YAY! __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

11-15-2004, 02:20 PM	#26 (permalink)
TheFeniX Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 26 Posts: 4,478	Re: How about some new alien tactics? So, the communication issue aside: there's also a prevalence of different commanding styles on the TG server. Based upon the way the res war is going, the commander will adjust his tactics accordingly. Conversely, the aliens are STILL using the same tactics even with unchained. The players name of who is going to drop the hive/upgrades/fade. If they get a good fade off the bat (Lazyeye, custom, etc) and the marines don't get a good block or lucky ambush, then the aliens are looking good. But once they take that fade hit, the momentum seems to be gone. The only real divergence I've seen is the multiple fade strat, which either wins the game for the aliens, or looses it for them. I constantly see skulks run by un-eleced RTs on the mini-map to engage marines in an open hallway, then die. I've brought this up in another thread, but in the larger scope of things, loosing one skulk to defend on a hive rush so he can kill undefended RTs isn't going to matter that much. If they get the hive down, but lost 3 RTs, they're hurting bad. If the hive stays up, then you've just gained an advantage rather than breaking even. The aliens have to be flat-out better all-around to beat a good marine team. Each player must take it upon himself to analyze the situation and react accordingly. Conversely, with 3-4 members on my marine team, we can dish out massed damaged. One or two stupid pubs won't affect us nearly as much as the same problem on the alien team. Paranoid knows this better than I do, but rarely do you get a harmonious voice chat on the alien team when everyone thinks they're in charge. I can always tell my detractors to shut up when I'm commanding. We should take time in this thread (or another) to hammer out some other good effective alien strats besides the "mog teh n00b f4de died, waht do we to now?!" PS: I do tend to miss the one gorge commander back in 1.4. I'm not sure which is inherently better. __________________ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - TheFeniX's Steam Profile TG's Team Fortress 2 Steam Group

11-15-2004, 03:37 PM	#27 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: How about some new alien tactics? As marines, it's very useful to get phase tech early. It helps with map control. I've recently coordinated efforts on the alien to make an effort to keep that remote hive flashing pretty often so that spawning aliens can quickly cross half the map with a movement chamber. It needs work, but it helps the aliens move around the map at the 3 minute mark. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

11-15-2004, 04:45 PM	#28 (permalink)
lordflametide Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA Age: 23 Posts: 189	Re: How about some new alien tactics? I still don't believe in phase tech as is. I fully believe that phase gates need to be two-way again (aliens being able to use them). If the marine team wants to overcome its natural DISADVANTAGE of movement, there needs to be a higher cost associated with it. Jetpacks are expensive now, thats fine. Phase gates are 15 research, 20 obs that you'd use anyway, and 15 per gate, to instantly travel marines from point A to B. Having to actually DEFEND your phase locations would be appropriate compensation for the mobility, I believe. That being so...mines are too expensive, and turrets aren't an overly viable option for phase gate defense. If you want to fix one, you have to change the other. /shrug. __________________ --T3C[]-[]N0 []v[]UFF1N The vending machine originated in Egypt in 215 B.C. Learn somethin new everyday, dontcha?

11-15-2004, 06:53 PM	#30 (permalink)
Zephyr Join Date: Apr 2004 Age: 20 Posts: 1,665	Re: How about some new alien tactics? Just a thought on that whole two-way phasegate thingy. I think that would be a really really good idea and add an interesting development to the gameplay. Give phasegates an on/off switch too so the commander can deactivate a phasegate on one side. You try to phase rush a hive and the aliens know? suddenly the MARINES are phase spawn killed by two skulks whom wreck general havok, followed by a fade to just cause intense confusion. If marines want to leave a phase gate right by an electrified node it should be perfectly viable that the skulks make a diving rush for it and send themselves straight to their base...unless of course the commander turns off the base phasegate. If your on map and the aliens know a phase is being built outside their hive, they should be able to get two skulks to another known phasegate position because the base gate will have to be opened and the skulks can arrive, maybe even with a phasekill, and wreck havok on a base, causing a complete turnaround on a rush. This can easily be countered by turrents, which are becoming obsolete because a good portion of TG's community consider themselves "above" the base rusher unless its to hit an observatory. I just favor the marines having to do a bit more work to maintain their phase network, they can electrify nodes and teleport wherever they need go at any given time, they should have to build a turret factory to protect their interests at phasegates. Anyway to script this as a plugin to at least try and see if it can shift power back to the aliens? Feel free to flame im not even really conscious, I just think it would be a good check on the marine dominance we see now... -Zephyr __________________ You were once like the newbie who needed a hand from above and TacticalGamer gave you it. You owe the newbie who comes after you that same outstretched hand from above on your honor as a Tactical Gamer. Tactics at TG come from trust and friendship, not meticulous detail and rigid discipline. Everyone should be assumed mature until proven otherwise. We are no clan. We are not a single game. We are mature, intelligent, and cooperative individuals. We are TacticalGamer, a community above and beyond its name.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Real Urban Tactics (Long Read)	civdiv0211	Battlefield 2 - Tactics and Missions Discussion	6	02-16-2006 02:20 PM
TacticalWiki Fixer Upper: Alien Gameplay	TheAdj`	Natural Selection - Tactics and Mod Discussions	0	11-24-2005 11:07 AM
TacticalWiki Fixer Upper: Motion Tracking	TheAdj`	Natural Selection - Tactics and Mod Discussions	0	11-24-2005 10:58 AM

Sponsored links

Sponsored links

Sponsored links

Sponsored links