How about some new alien tactics? - Page 3

Deprecated · 11-16-2004, 02:09 AM

Hey guys,

So yeah, I haven't been on much recently but I have been playing enough to comment I hope =P
I'm not gonna talk about rt defense, suffice to say OCs are almost entirely worthless and elec is dang strong, since it basically stops the vast majority of the aliens (skulks and first hive gorges) from attacking the rt with any level of effectiveness.

As for suggestions, one suggestion I have for alien tactics is that the gorges be treated like 1.0 gorges. Prevent gorge death at all costs, and gorges STAY gorges. I used to do this all the time: go gorge at start, put up an rt, and re-skulk. 25 res for an rt? The other problem is that a strong marine team will rush rts that are far from the hive early on, and since aliens don't develop mobility until later (blink mainly, also movements to other hives, etc) forward rts are impossible to defend.

So maybe 3-4 *total* rts for the start. Once a little res has built up, go from there. Every game I played on TG recently (which isn't many, I know, I need more game time) the aliens lost at least one rt in the first 1.5 minutes. Thats 25 res (including gorging res, usually the gorge dies). So nasty for the aliens.

Also, mixed units are entirely underused. Lerks? Spores are amazingly destructive in early game! Medpacks cost money, and marines can't stand getting spored into oblivion, its distracting as hell. Lerks will get hit, but if they have a gorge nearby to heal em, they can secure huge sections of the map early game. Skulks with a gorge healing midfight are also surprisingly hard to kill. The way things are now, people communicate and often do surprisingly well at communicating positions of people, but organizing an impromptu attack force is often just plain not done. Everyone acts independently, ESPECIALLY fades, which is somewhat expected since they have a huge mobility advantage, but everyone knows how annoying it is to lose an early fade. Why take a chance? just toy with em until the gorge or some skulks get there. If you have a good unit dispersion it should only take a couple seconds.

Most of the time I'm playing I'm thinking about things like unit dispersion, potential multi-unit ambushes (not communicating this usually, just trying to make it happen by being in the right place to follow another unit up when they attack), and usually cursing my head off when I get shot when I'm checking my list of taken towers (yeah I write em down because I can't keep track ingame, I suck). Does it work? Sorta. I think it would work better if everyone was conscious of things like that. The individuals have to do the work of the commander, and since no one has a view of everything that is happening, the aliens need to be conscious of wherever they are and responsible for that area.

I also am way too serious about NS sometimes, and I wish I could spend all day playing with NS tactics ideas =P oh well

--Dep

T_BEAR · 11-16-2004, 03:30 PM

I have noticed that aliens lose becuase the marines are able to control the res towers on the opposite side of the starting hive for the entire game. No one goes to take them out becuase they are busy defending the hive/ res towers. One skulk on the alien team needs to constanly take out the nodes on the other side of the map. Also another thing I have noticed is that people think that fades should take out res towers rather than skulks. This is completely wrong. Fades kill marines and skulks take out marine res towers. Why should a 50 res lifeform do the same thing that a skulk can do? If aliens do not put pressure on the marine team the aliens are doomed. The main goal of the fade is to put pressure on the marines and to save alien res towers since they have a faster response time than a skulk. Theres my 2 cents.

lordflametide · 11-16-2004, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_BEAR

I have noticed that aliens lose becuase the marines are able to control the res towers on the opposite side of the starting hive for the entire game. No one goes to take them out becuase they are busy defending the hive/ res towers. One skulk on the alien team needs to constanly take out the nodes on the other side of the map. Also another thing I have noticed is that people think that fades should take out res towers rather than skulks. This is completely wrong. Fades kill marines and skulks take out marine res towers. Why should a 50 res lifeform do the same thing that a skulk can do? If aliens do not put pressure on the marine team the aliens are doomed. The main goal of the fade is to put pressure on the marines and to save alien res towers since they have a faster response time than a skulk. Theres my 2 cents.

Fully and completely agreed. I usually find myself beating on res towers because despite numerous calls for a skulk to come kill the marine RT at location_whatever, no one does. Res war is THE factor that EVERYTHING ELSE revolves around. I used to chew on RTs non stop as a skulk, but since I've been goin fade, I just don't have the time to do it anymore since I need the RFK badly. If Custom or someone else is a superior fade, or wants to practice fade, then I go back to chewin on RTs. But I simply can't do both.

Zephyr · 11-17-2004, 05:46 PM

Perhaps its time to start calling "rt muncher" at the start of each round...
-Zephyr

**_Ender_** · 11-17-2004, 05:52 PM

Who ever dropped res nodes in the beginning of the game should be the "rt munchers" since they have no res to do anything..

lordflametide · 11-17-2004, 06:10 PM

Agreed ender. Speaking of which...we need SIGNIFICANTLY LESS perma-gorges. Hell, I don't think theres any reason for ONE perma-gorge. You can do enough damage and/or gain enough RFK to justify the extra 10res cost for re-gorging, and then some.

**_Ender_** · 11-17-2004, 07:23 PM

Yeah I dont understand why some people go "perma-gorge". You dont get any res at all and you have to depend on others to help you.

**Wyzcrak** · 11-17-2004, 07:45 PM

A skilled skulk holding an area with the assistance of a skilled battle-gorge is a useful thing. Otherwise, I see your point.

**TheAdj`** · 11-18-2004, 12:37 AM

If you're going to stay gorge at least learn to aim spit. At medium-close range it's entire possible to take out a marine with spit, as long as he doesn't get med-spammed. strafe and spit usually takes out a solo marine without support, which is often what kills a gorge. Other than that have as few gorges as possible, only saving to drop a specific item, then go back skulk. If you suck at killing marines, get a skulk buddy and go hit RTs. Have the other skulk wait in ambush, and kill the RT. More likely than not marines run for the obvious target and don't check for another skulk, which usually results in their untimely death. Just switch ambush spots each time and you'll usually kill any marines that come through, at least until the RT is down.

That's the main problem with pub aliens, they don't hit RTs and don't effectively coordinate against a skilled marine commander who can split his own team up. I partly blame the lack of a quality communication method, ingame is terrible. I much prefer ventrilo or teamspeak to in-game, as ingame tends to mute out every other sound when activated, ventrilo doesn't as long as the speaker doesn't have outbound volume too loud (or you have inbound too high). Someone should be hitting RTs all game or you have little chance against a comm with a clue. Wyz wins most of his games because he knows skulks wont stop early game marines, he gets all the RTs, electrifies them, then just waits on a second hive and rapes it either by force (the usual shotty rush) or by intelligence (switches back and forth attacking different hives and the alien team is usually too busy going "huh?" to figure it out). If people actually stopped and realized that the easiest way is to camp the initial RTs then his win percentage would plummet until he figured out a counter.

Once they RTs are electrified the first fades literally blink past them and ignore them until it's FAR too late, and no one ever hits base to counter the tech he gets (kill the advanced armory and the arms lab (WHILE UPGRADING) to slow the tech level, and even the proto if it's up. All 3 are important structures to kill, even to the point of sacrificing an onos or fade to kill them). If this happened more often aliens would win a much higher percentage of games.

lordflametide · 11-18-2004, 01:41 AM

Adj brings up a good point in that time loss can be devestating to a marine team. Particularly advanced armories, as they require an entire 3 minutes and are worth 40 res. 3 minutes is just a huge time loss in NS.

T_BEAR · 11-18-2004, 02:51 AM

Adj is completely right. People don't relize why Wyz wins so many marine games as comm...sigh...

**Wyzcrak** · 11-18-2004, 02:59 AM

It would be nice if people would stop giving up the minute they realize I'm in the chair. That helps nothing.

I like Z's idea of "muncher". I often take that role as skulk, parasiting nodes as I find them, and it's because I *KNOW* how devastating that constant strategic distraction and economic THREAT is to the COMMANDER. I know how much more challenged I am to win (and how much better the games are) when I'm commanding alongside skulks who make me maintain my nozzle income.

Now, the most important thing in this thread:

Anybody can have a conversation in the forums. The challenge is thinking about ALL of this WHILE you're in the GAME... as you're rounding corners, as you check the scoreboard.. as you decide on upgrades and tech decisions.. as you use the minimap to silently and effectively coordinate assaults with complementing abilities. Not only is that when you NEED this information, but it really is in APPLYING it that you learn it most reliably.

**TheAdj`** · 11-18-2004, 03:23 AM

Wyz quite frankly the only reason you win so much is the other team has been mostly clueless as to how to beat you. When you lose node control you either hit nodes and get in a rambo PG when no one is looking (a game in which you constantly hit nodes and rushed vent hive on caged comes to mind), very rarely have I ever seen you take a traditional march around the map and just destroy everything in your path with HA or JPs. People simply don't know how to combat anything but the default strats, which is why anything else normally wins.

**Wyzcrak** · 11-18-2004, 11:27 AM

You're wrong. I pay gnomes to give me victories.

Polska · 11-18-2004, 11:40 AM

**Polska comes out of his hole** Gnomes, like the ones from world of warcraft, who said gnomes **eye twitches**.

11-16-2004, 02:09 AM	#31 (permalink)
Deprecated Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 63	Re: How about some new alien tactics? Hey guys, So yeah, I haven't been on much recently but I have been playing enough to comment I hope =P I'm not gonna talk about rt defense, suffice to say OCs are almost entirely worthless and elec is dang strong, since it basically stops the vast majority of the aliens (skulks and first hive gorges) from attacking the rt with any level of effectiveness. As for suggestions, one suggestion I have for alien tactics is that the gorges be treated like 1.0 gorges. Prevent gorge death at all costs, and gorges STAY gorges. I used to do this all the time: go gorge at start, put up an rt, and re-skulk. 25 res for an rt? The other problem is that a strong marine team will rush rts that are far from the hive early on, and since aliens don't develop mobility until later (blink mainly, also movements to other hives, etc) forward rts are impossible to defend. So maybe 3-4 total rts for the start. Once a little res has built up, go from there. Every game I played on TG recently (which isn't many, I know, I need more game time) the aliens lost at least one rt in the first 1.5 minutes. Thats 25 res (including gorging res, usually the gorge dies). So nasty for the aliens. Also, mixed units are entirely underused. Lerks? Spores are amazingly destructive in early game! Medpacks cost money, and marines can't stand getting spored into oblivion, its distracting as hell. Lerks will get hit, but if they have a gorge nearby to heal em, they can secure huge sections of the map early game. Skulks with a gorge healing midfight are also surprisingly hard to kill. The way things are now, people communicate and often do surprisingly well at communicating positions of people, but organizing an impromptu attack force is often just plain not done. Everyone acts independently, ESPECIALLY fades, which is somewhat expected since they have a huge mobility advantage, but everyone knows how annoying it is to lose an early fade. Why take a chance? just toy with em until the gorge or some skulks get there. If you have a good unit dispersion it should only take a couple seconds. Most of the time I'm playing I'm thinking about things like unit dispersion, potential multi-unit ambushes (not communicating this usually, just trying to make it happen by being in the right place to follow another unit up when they attack), and usually cursing my head off when I get shot when I'm checking my list of taken towers (yeah I write em down because I can't keep track ingame, I suck). Does it work? Sorta. I think it would work better if everyone was conscious of things like that. The individuals have to do the work of the commander, and since no one has a view of everything that is happening, the aliens need to be conscious of wherever they are and responsible for that area. I also am way too serious about NS sometimes, and I wish I could spend all day playing with NS tactics ideas =P oh well --Dep

11-16-2004, 03:30 PM	#32 (permalink)
T_BEAR Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Illinois Age: 22 Posts: 252	Re: How about some new alien tactics? I have noticed that aliens lose becuase the marines are able to control the res towers on the opposite side of the starting hive for the entire game. No one goes to take them out becuase they are busy defending the hive/ res towers. One skulk on the alien team needs to constanly take out the nodes on the other side of the map. Also another thing I have noticed is that people think that fades should take out res towers rather than skulks. This is completely wrong. Fades kill marines and skulks take out marine res towers. Why should a 50 res lifeform do the same thing that a skulk can do? If aliens do not put pressure on the marine team the aliens are doomed. The main goal of the fade is to put pressure on the marines and to save alien res towers since they have a faster response time than a skulk. Theres my 2 cents.

11-17-2004, 05:46 PM	#34 (permalink)
Zephyr Join Date: Apr 2004 Age: 20 Posts: 1,665	Re: How about some new alien tactics? Perhaps its time to start calling "rt muncher" at the start of each round... -Zephyr __________________ You were once like the newbie who needed a hand from above and TacticalGamer gave you it. You owe the newbie who comes after you that same outstretched hand from above on your honor as a Tactical Gamer. Tactics at TG come from trust and friendship, not meticulous detail and rigid discipline. Everyone should be assumed mature until proven otherwise. We are no clan. We are not a single game. We are mature, intelligent, and cooperative individuals. We are TacticalGamer, a community above and beyond its name.

11-17-2004, 05:52 PM	#35 (permalink)
_Ender_ Join Date: May 2003 Location: I am lost, if you know where I am then please feel free to tell me. Age: 29 Posts: 2,048	Re: How about some new alien tactics? Who ever dropped res nodes in the beginning of the game should be the "rt munchers" since they have no res to do anything..

11-17-2004, 06:10 PM	#36 (permalink)
lordflametide Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA Age: 23 Posts: 189	Re: How about some new alien tactics? Agreed ender. Speaking of which...we need SIGNIFICANTLY LESS perma-gorges. Hell, I don't think theres any reason for ONE perma-gorge. You can do enough damage and/or gain enough RFK to justify the extra 10res cost for re-gorging, and then some. __________________ --T3C[]-[]N0 []v[]UFF1N The vending machine originated in Egypt in 215 B.C. Learn somethin new everyday, dontcha?

11-17-2004, 07:23 PM	#37 (permalink)
_Ender_ Join Date: May 2003 Location: I am lost, if you know where I am then please feel free to tell me. Age: 29 Posts: 2,048	Re: How about some new alien tactics? Yeah I dont understand why some people go "perma-gorge". You dont get any res at all and you have to depend on others to help you.

11-17-2004, 07:45 PM	#38 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: How about some new alien tactics? A skilled skulk holding an area with the assistance of a skilled battle-gorge is a useful thing. Otherwise, I see your point. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

11-18-2004, 12:37 AM	#39 (permalink)
TheAdj` Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 370	Re: How about some new alien tactics? If you're going to stay gorge at least learn to aim spit. At medium-close range it's entire possible to take out a marine with spit, as long as he doesn't get med-spammed. strafe and spit usually takes out a solo marine without support, which is often what kills a gorge. Other than that have as few gorges as possible, only saving to drop a specific item, then go back skulk. If you suck at killing marines, get a skulk buddy and go hit RTs. Have the other skulk wait in ambush, and kill the RT. More likely than not marines run for the obvious target and don't check for another skulk, which usually results in their untimely death. Just switch ambush spots each time and you'll usually kill any marines that come through, at least until the RT is down. That's the main problem with pub aliens, they don't hit RTs and don't effectively coordinate against a skilled marine commander who can split his own team up. I partly blame the lack of a quality communication method, ingame is terrible. I much prefer ventrilo or teamspeak to in-game, as ingame tends to mute out every other sound when activated, ventrilo doesn't as long as the speaker doesn't have outbound volume too loud (or you have inbound too high). Someone should be hitting RTs all game or you have little chance against a comm with a clue. Wyz wins most of his games because he knows skulks wont stop early game marines, he gets all the RTs, electrifies them, then just waits on a second hive and rapes it either by force (the usual shotty rush) or by intelligence (switches back and forth attacking different hives and the alien team is usually too busy going "huh?" to figure it out). If people actually stopped and realized that the easiest way is to camp the initial RTs then his win percentage would plummet until he figured out a counter. Once they RTs are electrified the first fades literally blink past them and ignore them until it's FAR too late, and no one ever hits base to counter the tech he gets (kill the advanced armory and the arms lab (WHILE UPGRADING) to slow the tech level, and even the proto if it's up. All 3 are important structures to kill, even to the point of sacrificing an onos or fade to kill them). If this happened more often aliens would win a much higher percentage of games.

11-18-2004, 01:41 AM	#40 (permalink)
lordflametide Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA Age: 23 Posts: 189	Re: How about some new alien tactics? Adj brings up a good point in that time loss can be devestating to a marine team. Particularly advanced armories, as they require an entire 3 minutes and are worth 40 res. 3 minutes is just a huge time loss in NS. __________________ --T3C[]-[]N0 []v[]UFF1N The vending machine originated in Egypt in 215 B.C. Learn somethin new everyday, dontcha?

11-18-2004, 02:51 AM	#41 (permalink)
T_BEAR Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Illinois Age: 22 Posts: 252	Re: How about some new alien tactics? Adj is completely right. People don't relize why Wyz wins so many marine games as comm...sigh...

11-18-2004, 02:59 AM	#42 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: How about some new alien tactics? It would be nice if people would stop giving up the minute they realize I'm in the chair. That helps nothing. I like Z's idea of "muncher". I often take that role as skulk, parasiting nodes as I find them, and it's because I KNOW how devastating that constant strategic distraction and economic THREAT is to the COMMANDER. I know how much more challenged I am to win (and how much better the games are) when I'm commanding alongside skulks who make me maintain my nozzle income. Now, the most important thing in this thread: Anybody can have a conversation in the forums. The challenge is thinking about ALL of this WHILE you're in the GAME... as you're rounding corners, as you check the scoreboard.. as you decide on upgrades and tech decisions.. as you use the minimap to silently and effectively coordinate assaults with complementing abilities. Not only is that when you NEED this information, but it really is in APPLYING it that you learn it most reliably. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

11-18-2004, 03:23 AM	#43 (permalink)
TheAdj` Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 370	Re: How about some new alien tactics? Wyz quite frankly the only reason you win so much is the other team has been mostly clueless as to how to beat you. When you lose node control you either hit nodes and get in a rambo PG when no one is looking (a game in which you constantly hit nodes and rushed vent hive on caged comes to mind), very rarely have I ever seen you take a traditional march around the map and just destroy everything in your path with HA or JPs. People simply don't know how to combat anything but the default strats, which is why anything else normally wins.

11-18-2004, 11:27 AM	#44 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: How about some new alien tactics? You're wrong. I pay gnomes to give me victories. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

11-18-2004, 11:40 AM	#45 (permalink)
Polska Join Date: May 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 26 Posts: 716	Re: How about some new alien tactics? Polska comes out of his hole Gnomes, like the ones from world of warcraft, who said gnomes eye twitches. __________________ I love gaming, mmmmmmmm

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