Take a look at the NS website

**kormendi** · 12-16-2004, 11:30 PM

An almost complete changelog is posted + constellation playtesting by the new year.

cool

Black_V!per · 12-17-2004, 12:41 AM

Yes
4567890

jackel · 12-17-2004, 12:48 AM

woo
123

(message to short my ass)

Zek · 12-17-2004, 02:01 AM

Finally some news, though still at least a week for the site...

Definitely a nice looking changelog, though I'm confused on a couple of the notes, maybe you guys understood it better:

Quote:

O Sieges no longer damage friendly players.

What about enemies? Was the global damage removal pulled, or is this just an oversight?

Quote:

O Acid rocket now does double damage to armor.

What does this mean? Does it calculate damage like before and then do twice the armor damage it normally would have, or does it attack armor directly?

Quote:

O Unbuilt hives use a different sprite for easy detection.

On the minimap or on the hivesight?

**TheAdj`** · 12-17-2004, 03:44 AM

When I actually test this version (got released about a day ago, no one's played it yet) I'll tell you, all those changes except the last one are new. There is now a built and unbuilt hive sprite on hivesight.

LazyEye · 12-17-2004, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAdj`

When I actually test this version (got released about a day ago, no one's played it yet) I'll tell you, all those changes except the last one are new. There is now a built and unbuilt hive sprite on hivesight.

They sure made it sound like they have already been testing that build from what they wrote on the mainpage.

I wonder how the hixbox changes will play out and if alien hp will need to be raised, also the shotty change, how long is 500 units? The cloaking changes seem kind of "meh" but I guess ill have to wait and see how it plays out.

**Wyzcrak** · 12-17-2004, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAdj`

all those changes except the last one are [unplayed]

LOL. That poor dev team. I wish them the best of luck. I'm sure it will be fantastic in the end, but man... so much work.

Zek · 12-17-2004, 01:29 PM

I am still a little skeptical about the actual impact this will have on DMS. It's no secret that the real problem with DMS is the dependency of Fades on regen(and, subsequently, the dependency of the alien team on Fades). As long as aliens still need Fades to be successful, the most viable strategy will be the one that helps them the most, which as of now is irrefutably DCs first thanks to Regen.

So the question is, will Beta 6 alleviate the reliance on Regen enough to allow Fades, and thus the alien team, to be effective enough without it? The only change in there to that effect is passive regen, which is 2% per second IIRC? Over a minute of downtime to heal a reasonable amount of damage is often not an option for a Fade, in which case they'll have to go back to the hive and the benefit of passive regen was nominal. While it's true that the new Cloaking will probably be useful for Fades, you could also say that the fixed hitboxes will make them more reliant on Carapace against good marines.

If a PT(*cough*Adj*cough*) would tell me my suspicions are wrong that would be nice, but even so I don't think a closed beta test will fully measure the outcome of these changes. 2.0 proved that a brief renewed interest in alternate chamber orders is not enough to change the pattern, and the only way for MCs or SCs first to gain long-term acceptance is if the path to victory with those is as doable on pub servers as DCs are. I want to believe that we'll see an equal choice between the three chamber types every game, but unless it becomes easier to pull off a win with MCs/SCs without clan-level coordination, pubbers will eventually settle with what they're comfortable with. I do think that both MCs and SCs will be more lower lifeform focused strats now that upgrades are free and with the new cloaking, but so far that hasn't been a very viable way to win the game as an alien.

**TheAdj`** · 12-18-2004, 02:02 AM

Wyz I just meant the changes that Zek listed, most of the changelog has been tested for months, the latest build added like 10 things that haven't been tested yet (including things not on the changelog).

Zek it comes down to how the aliens want to play the game. If they just piss around and let fades do all the work they'll probably need dcs, if they use some skulk teamwork SMD is 100% entirely possible with b6, sensories are very powerful, and movement really improves on sensory in b6 with free silence. Free ups makes skulks actually useful in combat if they get sensory or movement ups, which is why they're viable as first/second chambers. Focus skulks that can bhop into a room cloaked are pretty ridiculous. It really boils down to how the aliens want to play as to what works.

Zek · 12-18-2004, 03:33 AM

My point is that not all strats are created equal in pub games... I've heard more than a few clanners who were eager to point out that they use MCs or SCs first in scrims ever since 2.0, as if the fact that it's possible means they're equal. In current and previous builds, those strats have required somewhat more coordination and skill to use effectively, whereas DMS is basically a simple deathmatch formula that everybody eventually figures out. It's obvious why one is more prevalent in pubs than the other. I'm not saying alien strats should be made more 2 dimensional, just that the real cause of the DMS reliance needs to be acknowledged. Obviously I don't know yet what B6 will bring, I'm just playing devil's advocate and saying that using other chambers to great success in a tight group of testers is not the same thing as bringing them to the same level as DCs in your average games.

**TheAdj`** · 12-18-2004, 04:09 AM

Don't know what you think about playtesting, but most of the games are played straight up pub style, do what you want when you want without answering to anyone. Some games are run pug style to where someone runs the show, but most of the games are simply play it out and see what happens. Decent sensory placement and cloakers are really effective, regardless of teamwork. Silent skulks also take a toll if movement goes first. Neither of these require a lot of teamwork really, not anymore than someone going regen fade and holding off marines alone. The point is you don't HAVE to have a regen fade in order to win in b6, and in reality you don't in b5 either, but most teams can't muster the skillcraft and teamwork required to do it reliably in a pub situation with any given players

**_Ender_** · 12-18-2004, 07:03 AM

Can somebody post the entire change long please?

<usually somebody does this (wyz!)>

**kormendi** · 12-18-2004, 11:51 AM

With all the talk about how game play has changed significantly, I figured there would have been more actual "gameplay changes".
Perhaps there are still some things they are keeping secret.

Quote:

Gameplay changes
O Aliens have innate regeneration at a rate of 2% per second, this regeneration will always heal at least 1 point of health or armor and stacks with DC healing, but doesn't 'stack' with Regeneration.
O Alien upgrades cost 0 resources.
O Gestating to skulk costs 0 resources.
O Sieges no longer damage friendly players.
O Siege now does 330 Damage.
O Turrets now prioritize players over structures.
O Offense Chambers now priorities players over structures.
O Parasite now takes precedence over Scent of Fear image (allows players to see that their Parasite hit when using SOF to help teammates track enemies).
O Parasite now has a different icon based on if the target was a player or a structure.
O Bile Bomb's range has been increased by 15%.
O Cat-pack cost has been reduced from 4 to 3.
O Marines near Sensory chambers show up as if detected by Scent of Fear.

Game mechanics
O Hitbox code has been much improved, so shooting through the legs of an Onos will miss, while shots on edges of models will now hit.
O Players using Cloaking upgrade will no longer be fully visible at any time unless attacking.
O Players moving faster than walking pace will gradually become more visible the faster they move, but only to a max visibility of 30%.
O Turrets will not fire at aliens with less than 10% visibility.
O Clicking on an enemy structure (visible, non-visible and cloaked) gives a 'move to' waypoint.
O Shotgun range begins to fall off at 500 units, and is then reduced by 1% for every 2 further units, resulting in 0 damage after 700 units, to stop shotgun sniping.
O If you are within 600 units of marine start, you will not be transported in by Distress Beacon.
O Group waypoints will now act like personal waypoints for each player (so when you reach the waypoint, it disappears for you, while remaining for all other players).
O Alien respawn time reduced for teams larger than 6. As the number of hives increase, this time is increased, so at 3 hives there is no difference from respawn rate at 6 players.
O Combat wavespawn now takes a 5 seconds plus 2 seconds for every dead player, up to a maximum of 13 seconds.
O Added 'notready' command to reverse ready status in tournament mode.
O Fixed exploit where structures could be dropped near marines in water to avoid building restrictions.
O Equipment, med-packs, ammo-packs, etc. can again be dropped directly on players.
O Acid rocket now does double damage to armor.
O Knife knockback has been removed.
O Players no longer join a team in the 'dead' state.

Cosmetic changes:
O Added Heavy Armor falling sound.
O Gave each Alien a unique landing sound.
O Updated Jetpack sound.
O Updated LMG clip out and clip in sounds.
O Updated Pistol reload sounds.
O Reverted LMG firing sound back to sound from beta 4.
O Updated welder idle sound to be more obvious when not welding anything.
O Replaced raindrop sprites.
O Added a "player joined team" messages to HUD.
O Updated med-pack model.
O Updated cat-pack commander menu icons to provide a consistent interface.
O Friendly parasited players no longer show up in hive sight, and are no longer notified that they are parasited (Parasite still does FF damage though).
O Hive locations always appears on Hive Sight.
O Unbuilt hives use a different sprite for easy detection.
O Commander Station always shows as closed in combat maps.

**_Ender_** · 12-18-2004, 12:07 PM

"Knife knockback has been removed. "

NNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!! I cant knife onos' any more!!!

**Wyzcrak** · 12-18-2004, 12:10 PM

Quote:

O Players using Cloaking upgrade will no longer be fully visible at any time unless attacking.
O Players moving faster than walking pace will gradually become more visible the faster they move, but only to a max visibility of 30%.

I can already here the folks wailing about this one. Man, this sounds nice.

Quote:

O Clicking on an enemy structure (visible, non-visible and cloaked) gives a 'move to' waypoint.

Can the commander still not hear nodes for the first minute of the game? Does this counter that? What keeps me from finding hives from the chair with this?

Quote:

O If you are within 600 units of marine start, you will not be transported in by Distress Beacon.

Nah-eece.

Quote:

O Equipment, med-packs, ammo-packs, etc. can again be dropped directly on players.

Gets the Wyzcrak Stamp of Approval.

Quote:

O Added a "player joined team" messages to HUD.

Ahhh very good.

Quote:

O Hive locations always appears on Hive Sight.
O Unbuilt hives use a different sprite for easy detection.

This will help players new to the game and/or maps.

12-16-2004, 11:30 PM	#1 (permalink)
kormendi Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Fairfax, Virginia Age: 27 Posts: 2,174	Take a look at the NS website An almost complete changelog is posted + constellation playtesting by the new year. cool

12-17-2004, 12:41 AM	#2 (permalink)
Black_V!per Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Kingman AZ. Age: 20 Posts: 1,445	Re: Take a look at the NS website Yes 4567890 __________________ Start counting, when you reach infinity tell me. If you can read this you've got to much time on your hands.

12-17-2004, 12:48 AM	#3 (permalink)
jackel Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 815	Re: Take a look at the NS website woo 123 (message to short my ass)

12-17-2004, 03:44 AM	#5 (permalink)
TheAdj` Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 370	Re: Take a look at the NS website When I actually test this version (got released about a day ago, no one's played it yet) I'll tell you, all those changes except the last one are new. There is now a built and unbuilt hive sprite on hivesight.

12-17-2004, 01:29 PM	#8 (permalink)
Zek Join Date: Jun 2003 Age: 21 Posts: 597	Re: Take a look at the NS website I am still a little skeptical about the actual impact this will have on DMS. It's no secret that the real problem with DMS is the dependency of Fades on regen(and, subsequently, the dependency of the alien team on Fades). As long as aliens still need Fades to be successful, the most viable strategy will be the one that helps them the most, which as of now is irrefutably DCs first thanks to Regen. So the question is, will Beta 6 alleviate the reliance on Regen enough to allow Fades, and thus the alien team, to be effective enough without it? The only change in there to that effect is passive regen, which is 2% per second IIRC? Over a minute of downtime to heal a reasonable amount of damage is often not an option for a Fade, in which case they'll have to go back to the hive and the benefit of passive regen was nominal. While it's true that the new Cloaking will probably be useful for Fades, you could also say that the fixed hitboxes will make them more reliant on Carapace against good marines. If a PT(coughAdjcough) would tell me my suspicions are wrong that would be nice, but even so I don't think a closed beta test will fully measure the outcome of these changes. 2.0 proved that a brief renewed interest in alternate chamber orders is not enough to change the pattern, and the only way for MCs or SCs first to gain long-term acceptance is if the path to victory with those is as doable on pub servers as DCs are. I want to believe that we'll see an equal choice between the three chamber types every game, but unless it becomes easier to pull off a win with MCs/SCs without clan-level coordination, pubbers will eventually settle with what they're comfortable with. I do think that both MCs and SCs will be more lower lifeform focused strats now that upgrades are free and with the new cloaking, but so far that hasn't been a very viable way to win the game as an alien.

12-18-2004, 02:02 AM	#9 (permalink)
TheAdj` Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 370	Re: Take a look at the NS website Wyz I just meant the changes that Zek listed, most of the changelog has been tested for months, the latest build added like 10 things that haven't been tested yet (including things not on the changelog). Zek it comes down to how the aliens want to play the game. If they just piss around and let fades do all the work they'll probably need dcs, if they use some skulk teamwork SMD is 100% entirely possible with b6, sensories are very powerful, and movement really improves on sensory in b6 with free silence. Free ups makes skulks actually useful in combat if they get sensory or movement ups, which is why they're viable as first/second chambers. Focus skulks that can bhop into a room cloaked are pretty ridiculous. It really boils down to how the aliens want to play as to what works.

12-18-2004, 03:33 AM	#10 (permalink)
Zek Join Date: Jun 2003 Age: 21 Posts: 597	Re: Take a look at the NS website My point is that not all strats are created equal in pub games... I've heard more than a few clanners who were eager to point out that they use MCs or SCs first in scrims ever since 2.0, as if the fact that it's possible means they're equal. In current and previous builds, those strats have required somewhat more coordination and skill to use effectively, whereas DMS is basically a simple deathmatch formula that everybody eventually figures out. It's obvious why one is more prevalent in pubs than the other. I'm not saying alien strats should be made more 2 dimensional, just that the real cause of the DMS reliance needs to be acknowledged. Obviously I don't know yet what B6 will bring, I'm just playing devil's advocate and saying that using other chambers to great success in a tight group of testers is not the same thing as bringing them to the same level as DCs in your average games.

12-18-2004, 04:09 AM	#11 (permalink)
TheAdj` Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 370	Re: Take a look at the NS website Don't know what you think about playtesting, but most of the games are played straight up pub style, do what you want when you want without answering to anyone. Some games are run pug style to where someone runs the show, but most of the games are simply play it out and see what happens. Decent sensory placement and cloakers are really effective, regardless of teamwork. Silent skulks also take a toll if movement goes first. Neither of these require a lot of teamwork really, not anymore than someone going regen fade and holding off marines alone. The point is you don't HAVE to have a regen fade in order to win in b6, and in reality you don't in b5 either, but most teams can't muster the skillcraft and teamwork required to do it reliably in a pub situation with any given players

12-18-2004, 07:03 AM	#12 (permalink)
_Ender_ Join Date: May 2003 Location: I am lost, if you know where I am then please feel free to tell me. Age: 29 Posts: 2,048	Re: Take a look at the NS website Can somebody post the entire change long please? <usually somebody does this (wyz!)>

12-18-2004, 12:07 PM	#14 (permalink)
_Ender_ Join Date: May 2003 Location: I am lost, if you know where I am then please feel free to tell me. Age: 29 Posts: 2,048	Re: Take a look at the NS website "Knife knockback has been removed. " NNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!! I cant knife onos' any more!!!

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