Re: marines dropping unbuilt structures (such as rts) to block nozzles

**Tempest** · 12-28-2004, 05:44 PM

lol @ Fenix and Adj

Originally Posted by TheFeniX

This was an issue I had with the Alien movies. What were the xenos eating that caused them the ability to grow?

This always bothered the hell outta me too, espically regarding the first movie.

**zibalatz** · 01-02-2005, 10:53 PM

Seeing as this issue came up again tonight, I'll reraise it. If you haven't already read this thread, please do.

I've tried to summarize/distill people's posts into a simple yes/no position:
Marines dropping RT to slow alien movement?
Yes, that's ok/is counter-able/is not an issue: 7
No, it's not ok, it should be disallowed: 7

If you don't trust my summary, you can go back through the posts and come to your own conclusions. Note that I've included people in the "Yes it's ok" position those who argued that the tactic is counterable but did not explicitly say whether, despite it being counterable, they are for or against it.

I'm not going to get into the issue of why Wyz chose to use the technique and so on- I'll start that in a separate thread. What I'd like to see here is further discussion on the topic. Has anyone who was in one camp changed their minds? Any new insights into the tactic?

**Zek** · 01-02-2005, 11:54 PM

I joined just as the game ended, but whatever happened in that one game(and I assume Wyz won judging from the bickering) I don't think it's proof of anything. It's perfectly natural to win with a new tactic that the other team wasn't at all prepared for. If Aliens skulk rush and annihilate a marine team that left the comm to build, is that strat overpowered now? What if marines electrify everything and nobody saved for Fade? I maintain that the node-blocking strat is counterable, but that means that aliens have to be ready to use the counter if they expect to beat it. Like any valid tactic, it can win the game for you if not countered, but could just as easily work against the marines if the aliens are ready for it.

**zibalatz** · 01-03-2005, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Zek

I joined just as the game ended, but whatever happened in that one game(and I assume Wyz won judging from the bickering) I don't think it's proof of anything. It's perfectly natural to win with a new tactic that the other team wasn't at all prepared for. If Aliens skulk rush and annihilate a marine team that left the comm to build, is that strat overpowered now? What if marines electrify everything and nobody saved for Fade? I maintain that the node-blocking strat is counterable, but that means that aliens have to be ready to use the counter if they expect to beat it. Like any valid tactic, it can win the game for you if not countered, but could just as easily work against the marines if the aliens are ready for it.

Actually, Wyz used the tactic and ultimately lost the round. Nonetheless, as you say, I don't think it's proof of anything. I do think that amount of bickering is worth noting, however.

**retard** · 01-03-2005, 01:33 AM

please refer to my post about the tactic being best on 2vs2 through 4vs4, any larger amount of players in the server requires incredible response time (talking about marines here) in order for the node dropping strategy to work. on top of that, it only tends to work best on certain maps, like eclipse. doesn't work too well on others, bast, nothing, lost and so on.

however, this should be considered more of a tactic than a strategy, as in you drop the node to prevent the alien team from realizing the node is open. this goes not best for the beginning of the game, but for mid to end games where you have plenty of res to manage it. sort of what i call "closing the nodes."

**ImAWuss** · 01-03-2005, 07:32 AM

I dont like the strategy or tactic if you will.

Marines should be in the general area before the commander can drop the RT.

**Zek** · 01-03-2005, 09:19 AM

Fine, but just because the tactic is unpopular on principle doesn't mean it's unbalanced. So far all evidence points to the contrary. If it's such an overpowering and effective strategy, why doesn't anyone use it?

**micr0c0sm** · 01-03-2005, 05:17 PM

It is a counterable tactic. It is a balanced tactic. It is annoying, cheap and dirty tactic. Using it will not gain my respect in the game, but can work.

Counters
- gorge on the node
- chomp it down and they lose res (although i think time > res....)

Balance
- marines can lose 15 or 7 res, to prevent a gorge from building for 20 seconds (thats about 3 alien res i believe)

I vote for allowing it, but wouldnt like any comm to rely thier strategy on it. Personally i think it hurts the marines more than the aliens, even if it is much more frustrating to the aliens.

**Iceberg** · 01-03-2005, 05:27 PM

But wouldnt it also distract the aliens from heading to other parts of the map, key areas and choke points? If it is a 6 on 6 game, thats about 2 aliens distracted away from map control for 20 seconds. Alot can happen in 20 seconds.

**micr0c0sm** · 01-03-2005, 06:25 PM

I agree with you squeak, but ultimately I think that the tactic is more of a disadvantage to the marine team as long as the aliens know how to counter it. And it is easily countered. Any comm using this tactic will probably lose for the fact that the aliens will know how to counter it.

**adulus** · 01-03-2005, 06:50 PM

I vote that its a cheap dirty tactic and should be taken out and shot. It detracts from the fun and spirit of the game. Im not going to debate this, but it should not be allowed.

Also, keep this discussion on the forums please? It is annoying waiting for the next game while members and admins fight it out.

**Matt_Murphee** · 01-03-2005, 07:22 PM

i am also against.

**TheFeniX** · 01-03-2005, 07:52 PM

Guys, no offense but the phrase "I want it banned but I'm not going to defend my choice" is a pretty large issue. If you can't or won't provide evidence that supports your point, then this discussion cannot proceed.

I see those willing to allow this tactic providing details on why it shouldn't be stifled, and the only person really showing an arguement against it is Wyzcrack.

But the only arguement seems to be: "It's annoying." Well, getting sieged out of a hive is annoying. Getting PG rushed is annoying. Hell, losing is annoying. Unless a poll is running, there's really no reason to post a "yay or nay" answer.

Once again, go back and read my post and why this shouldn't be banned. CC blocking is banned because of the massive gain it can give the marines for a small risk. This tactic shares neither a large gain nor a big loss for either team. You can either adapt to a different possible tactic, or just complain about it all day. I choose to adapt.

And I don't see anyone complaining about marines dropping a diversionary PG. We shouldn't apply a double standard.

**Zek** · 01-03-2005, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by squeak

But wouldnt it also distract the aliens from heading to other parts of the map, key areas and choke points? If it is a 6 on 6 game, thats about 2 aliens distracted away from map control for 20 seconds. Alot can happen in 20 seconds.

That's right. It distracts aliens, but as a tradeoff it costs marines a good deal of res. Marines losing a third of their starting res is equivalent to losing time, because it delays the rest of their upgrades and expansion. It's a tradeoff, which is why it's not a cheap tactic in the slightest.

**Pokerface** · 01-03-2005, 08:55 PM

A diversionary PG though, costs the aliens only time. An unbuilt res node coses both time and lost resources.

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