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Discussion: Natural Selection / Natural Selection - General Discussion - f4! - I've seen this discussed before, and one of the few arguments that is, time and
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12-01-2003, 02:43 PM #16
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I've seen this discussed before, and one of the few arguments that is, time and again, rooted in fact void of opinion is that marines can have their entire tech tree in one corner of one room. The aliens simply can't do that.
The game needs some sort of tech punishment for a marine team that has lost the entire map. It wouldn't take aliens 20 minutes to finish the marine base if the marines' HMGs and level 3 armor were gone.
I'm no solution expert, but I've seen some suggested that struck a nice chord with me. One example is a res node requirement for tech. For example, to have a working arms lab, the marines must have at least X res nodes (you could debate the value of X, but I'd say you start at a minimum of 2).
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Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.
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12-01-2003, 02:48 PM #17
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... No.
Because the aliens aren't limited to just 3 of their upgrade chambers. they can have as many as their hearts desire, as long as they have the resc for it, so it's entirely possible for them to keep their upgrades without the hives.- 52
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12-01-2003, 02:54 PM #18
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Tech isn't limited to upgrades. There are abilities, too. Take, for example, the fact that marines can keep level three armor in one corner of the room. That's fine, and we could compare that to level three carapace that aliens can keep in one corner of their last room.
But bring into the equation that marines can keep grenade launcher ability in one corner of their last room, and aliens lose. When they're in their last hive, they have no acid rocket to keep spam at the marines as they try to seige.
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Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.
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12-01-2003, 02:59 PM #19
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The challenge of the game is that the races (marines and aliens) are not equal, they are not the same. Do this and they become more of the same. That's not the edge of the game. As much as it looks like it, It's not starcraft.
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12-01-2003, 03:22 PM #20
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Starcraft did not offer the equality you refer to, and I'm certainly not looking for equality for the sake of balance. I could care less that the marines' ability to hoard tech without effort simply differs from the aliens. The very existence of the ability is a hindrance to the conclusion of a well-earned victory. The minute the marines are trapped in their main (everyone knows when that point has passed), NS becomes CS. If I wanted to play a FPS, I'd go play an FPS. Without the RTS element, NS is just one deathmatch after another.
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12-01-2003, 08:44 PM #21
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With the weakening of the Fade's and Onos's ability to soak up damage (by fixing their hitboxes), base-busting became extremely hard. Bumping up the armor and health of Fades and Oni will destroy mid-game balance (now that hives are not a requirement).
Acid rocket would be able to end a marine Alamo, except for how easy and cheap it is to weld structures. Welding could be made to require 2 res nodes, but that's not really intuitive. Instead, I think welders should have a "fuel" level that's not replenishable. Comms can always drop more welders, but if you're locked down to one res tower, assuming the fuel amount is sufficiently small, you'll eventually starve the marines of their ability to repair structures and HA.
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12-01-2003, 09:20 PM #22
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*cough* catpacks *cough*
... and the list goes on....
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Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.
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12-01-2003, 10:16 PM #23
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The skulk chuckle is the same as a Rynadon, one of the NPC animals.
But neh. I could care less. NS is NOT Starcraft. Similar ideas, totally different game. What I wouldn't give for a Goliath tho
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12-02-2003, 12:15 AM #24
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*computer noises*
"Goliath online"
Man, that game is fun.- 52
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12-02-2003, 07:56 AM #25
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Why not just make acid rocket back to a 2 hive skill? Wouldn't that solve all our problems. Metamorphisis, or whatever that healing skill is, is useless.
I think fades need babblers for their hive 3 skill.
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12-02-2003, 10:17 AM #26
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I certainly do miss the two hive acid rocket. Babblers I can do without. While cute, they rarely decided battles.
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Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Zephyr: Apophis is clearly a highly sophisticated self-aware AI construct that runs on a highly modified toaster oven in Wyzcrak's basement.
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12-02-2003, 02:37 PM #27
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Babblers were great for trying to run away from marines.
Originally Posted by Wyzcrak
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12-02-2003, 02:47 PM #28
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they also allowed a gorge to hold an outpost by himself. they were perfect meat sheilds for the OCs. but being a 3rd hive trait which also means onos, you usually couldn't use them for very long.
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12-02-2003, 02:49 PM #29
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In the end, it comes down to the fact that with one res node for one side and the rest for the other side, the marines could potentially hold out indefinitely.
In the same situation reversed, the aliens would survive for about 10 seconds.
-- Suits are what you wear when doing things you shouldn’t want to do anyway.
FROM THE TACTICAL GAMER PRIMER.
3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.
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12-02-2003, 02:59 PM #30
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Unfortunatly true. While the "indefinitely" part is highly map dependant, it can get quite annoying. Originally Posted by Tempus
For once I think Wyzcraks idea of tieing upgrade functionality to online res-nodes would be good. For the most part if it was made to even just 2 res nodes (aka for a Arms Lab, Advanced Armory and Proto Lab to function) would acheive this aim. It might encourage a lot more relocates to Double Node areas, but almost ALL of the double node locations are hell to defend, so that would be an acceptable trade off. In fact, if this hasn't been suggested already, I'm going to go post this on NS.orgI am the one, I am the zero, I am your low resolution hero.
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