Re: Onos Rules??

**TheFeniX** · 04-19-2005, 06:53 PM

Jetapackers get owned by OCs in small games. This is further pushed by the massive amount of res the small alien team will be getting. A 4vs4 cries for a perma-gorge who lames the map to high-hell then laughs at the marine's attempts to win.

I only win small games because of hive lock-downs and murderous pressure on alien RTs.

**Card AKA Karrd** · 04-19-2005, 08:36 PM

Again, CO, not NS. And there is a fundemental difference between a JP and an onos, a jetpack is more menueverable so it is harder to hit, but if you can hit it a skulk can, and will, kill it. And onos is just so tough that it can take everything a low level marine can throw at it and still have life left. That's why I think a rule should be made against going onos early in small games.

**dagkam** · 05-02-2007, 07:40 PM

1. In NS, even in a small game, onos are very easy to kill. If it is early game shotguns and a pack of mines take care of an onos. If it is late game, a jetpack takes care of onos. Fades are the hard lifeforms to kill in small games b/c they have high hp, damage, and mobility (hit and run).

2. In Co, onos in a small game are easy to counter.
a. If someone straight onos, that means that they ignored getting 4 upgrades while you were upgrading. By this fact alone, they shouldn't be able to get 4 levels without taking some upgrades first unless you do extremely poorly. In that case, it doesn't matter what lifeform they go because you couldn't even kill them as a skulk.
b. Anyway, if marines stick together and have basic upgrades, three marines can easily take care of an early onos. Later on you can jp and solo onos.

3. Co is actually balanced for small games because there is no res count. 5v5 is optimal but you can even go smaller. It is "CS-NS" and relies on skill for the most part. If the other side does better do not complain that they were able to upper lifeform on you before you had the tech to counter them.

4. The TGNS community consideres Co a joke form of NS and doesn't take it seriously. NS is not "serious business" as well. Don't get offended if you find yourself to be in a "lame" situation. The fact is that you are playing a game and should except the rules of that game as being fair. You deserve to lose if you let them win using turrets farms or early onos.

5. This questioning of valid tactics (some risky and quick(onos) and other slower and less risky(fade)) is quite tiresome. What if I decided phase gates were lame, or sieges were lame, or jps were lame. "OMG they can movement anywhere on the map using pgs!, or OMG they killed our hive without even being in the room, or OMG they are flying around at 5 minutes b/c they jped rush and now we can't get close to them!"

6. In my experiences, a fade is much harder to kill then onos and I think it is unfair for people to characterize someone for doing anything in this game as being "selfish". This slandering of other players for playing the game that we all love is not characteristic of this community. If you have a problem with a life form in a given situation try using chat to ask them if they would not mind doing something else or just bite the bullet and try better next game, but please don't name call or degrade their character.

**micr0c0sm** · 05-02-2007, 08:20 PM

Fade is much worse in small game than onos, and co_ is meant to be practicing combat. I fail to see how horrible it is. If someone can go onos and you don't have shotguns it would be a lot worse if that person was fade with one extra upgrade (assuming decent fade).

No matter how you slice it, the better player will have the advantage and you will need to work together and harder than ever to beat that player. Thus fullfiling (IMO) the one redeeming reason to play co_.

**Wyzcrak** · 05-02-2007, 08:34 PM

There's something to be said for avoiding a lifeform that's largely accepted as rude in small games just because, you know, it bothers people, regardless of how harmless the thing may be competitively/etc.

Several of our regulars consider themselves having "won" most often by enjoying themselves thoroughly, win or lose.

Others moreso look to competitive victory as primarily responsible for their enjoying themselves. And that (in and of itself) breaks no rule we've got, really.

To each his own, I guess, but we're at our best when we do what we can to integrate "our" own with those of others around us.

**dagkam** · 05-02-2007, 09:57 PM

While some may find it rude...it is good to look at the rational behind such feelings. That is what this post is about. Some do not find it rude based on some very good arguments and with that being the case it would seem to stand that those that find it rude need to explain themselves better or be enlightened by the other side of the argument.

While it is good occasionally to submit to the offended in an attempt to avoid strife, there are just some things that should not be tolerated. Bashing parts of the game (or even worse players) that are valid, arguably fair, and serve to make the game as dynamic as it is can not be abided. Sometimes it is the responsibility of the offended to take a second look at the situation and realize that their complaining instigated the problem to begin with and that in hindsight a complete cease and desist of complaining is the remedy to end the problem.

On another note, following the popular opinion without critical and rational thinking has gotten many communities into a lot of trouble. I don't think I have to argue this point too much. "Don't eat a worm because your friends think it is cool and do it."

**Beehan** · 05-02-2007, 10:19 PM

It's funny, the extremely skilled players go like 40-5 against the rest of us using only a shotgun (or sharp, sharp teeth), no Onos required. Although it really is fun to run around and eat people. I say let it happen... Onos crack me up, even when I'm getting eaten. Although the aforementioned elite players would likely be able to pistol/knife me to death even when I'm Onos.

**freebirdpat** · 05-03-2007, 12:31 AM

The problem with the question is that it is vague. And the circumstances in the game can be quite varied with evidence that support that an early onos although annoying is not entirely unkillable and may help the game come to the conclusion it was going to anyhow. Onos are great at killing structures, and the comm chair has a ton of HP. Marines spawn fast, and fades, skulks, and the other lifeforms might not be able to take the chair down quickly, but they could virtually spawncamp or keep you locked up in base for a long time.

Then there is the marine PoV. Onos eat your ammo, and make you reload more. Means damage + weapon upgrades which may have not been the route you wanted to go but now is sort of forced. Kind of like cloaking forces you to get ping. Or shotguns force aliens to go to higher lifeforms. Now Aliens are on the defense in combat, so that means that onos might be just protecting the hive. Gorge webs + Onos is a good way to defend. Early onos, and onos in small games makes it harder for marines in combat mode.

IMHO, Onos should be allowed, but its essentially a situational basis when you come to the ethics and honor/dishonor of being an onos in a small CO game. The good thing for marines is that you are going against much more difficult odds. You do not become good by fighting against skulks that run in straight lines. Now an onos that knows how to stomp, devour, gore and the like might make you into a stronger marine in how to deal with onos.

Now Onos in 3 v 3 in NS games is a different story. and has its advantages/disadvantages. NS isn't even remotely fair in a 3v3

**Pokerface** · 05-03-2007, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by freebirdpat

Now Onos in 3 v 3 in NS games is a different story. and has its advantages/disadvantages. NS isn't even remotely fair in a 3v3

I disagree. In a 3v3, the name of the game is mobility, and the Onos has none. Similarly, the way the res situation works in a small game, it's very likely that the marines have turretfarmed an area such that the only hope for breaking it is to blow 75 res on the big guy.

In a small game, you need to know where the onos is and be somewhere else.

**dagkam** · 05-03-2007, 01:37 AM

I agree with Pokerface on the small NS game onos. Marines in small games get res very fast too. It is hard for aliens to hit marine nodes in small games and marines can cap a lot of nodes without much interference. If they use that res wisely they can easily keep an early onos at bay. Small games may not be balanced to play a "normal" strategy but with creativity and good strategery you can win a small game as marines. I love small games as marines personally. You can relocate and do a lot of fun things that wouldn't work in a larger game.

**Donat** · 05-03-2007, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Pokerface

I disagree. In a 3v3, the name of the game is mobility, and the Onos has none. Similarly, the way the res situation works in a small game, it's very likely that the marines have turretfarmed an area such that the only hope for breaking it is to blow 75 res on the big guy.

In a small game, you need to know where the onos is and be somewhere else.

Unfortunatly in most games you can't be where the onos is not because he'll either be swarming your base and you won't beable to do anything about it, or he'll be on a phasegate.

3v3 would be 1 man comm and 2 rines out on the map, 3 aliens probly droped 2 res nodes each and 1 onoses. Even if they fade, fade you'll blink around taking out the marines as they try to cap their nodes but aliens get rez quicker thus faster lifeforms, chambers, nodes and hives. So you can onos or fade real early

I've seen it kill the server some times, but hey, thats why i voted to keep CO for small games so we don't end up being bitter at eachother for fade / onos dominating a small NS game while not killing the IPs cause your havin fun. At any rate, thats just my opinion, but we mainly play CO for small server pop so this doesn't matter as much.

**Yer Mom** · 05-03-2007, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by TheFeniX

It's just another thing that makes me hate CO.

It's not the onosing that really bothers me. I already know aliens are hideously over-powered in CO. It's the fact that 9 times out of 10, that onos will spawn camp MS rather than killing the command chair.

Psh, shut your face Fenix. We haven't seen you in the server in a LONG time.

Come play some CO with us, then we'll accept your statistical input.

:P

-Mom

**TheFeniX** · 05-03-2007, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Yer Mom

Psh, shut your face Fenix. We haven't seen you in the server in a LONG time.

Come play some CO with us, then we'll accept your statistical input.

:P

-Mom

Considering my post was two years ago when I WAS actively playing NS, you can just put your foot right in your mouth. I think you just got served! BOOYAH!

Wait for it! WAIT FOR IT!: "Wise fwom youw gwave!"

**NSismylife** · 05-03-2007, 04:24 PM

"I only win small games because of hive lock-downs and murderous pressure on alien RTs."

Too bad this isn't true anymore. Aliens being able to "hit the hive" and "mc in" have kind of ruined hive lockdowns.

I used to relocate to an empty alien hive sometimes.

**Kerostasis** · 05-03-2007, 04:40 PM

They could...um...always do that? The only difference was they used to need MCs to "MC in", while now they can use any chamber.

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