VAC2 hits NS - Page 2

Karkianman101 · 08-10-2005, 09:06 PM

What was he doing? I'm just curious.

**Wyzcrak** · 08-10-2005, 09:42 PM

I don't recall.

Karkianman101 · 08-10-2005, 10:07 PM

Some unnamed people apparently thought I was asking why he was banned 0_o

JIC nobody *cough*HairyNevus*cough* understands simple wordings, I meant specifically what cheats

Enigma · 08-10-2005, 10:11 PM

An aimbot and a wallhack.

Karkianman101 · 08-10-2005, 10:14 PM

Ah. Jesus, those are 2 very hard to prove ones (since surround sound headphones and keenly honed reflexes can have the same affect). He must have been really showing it.

**Iceberg** · 08-10-2005, 11:07 PM

Wyz, is there any chance those demos can be used to teach other players who arent keen on catching these cheats?

**Wyzcrak** · 08-10-2005, 11:22 PM

No, there's not.

There are ample CS resources for learning such skills.

Enigma · 08-10-2005, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karkianman101

Ah. Jesus, those are 2 very hard to prove ones (since surround sound headphones and keenly honed reflexes can have the same affect). He must have been really showing it.

Yeah, he did. About to run around a corner with level 3 silence, marines have no MT, he starts shooting before I even get into the room

**Iceberg** · 08-11-2005, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyzcrak

There are ample CS resources for learning such skills.

But no NS resources anywhere?

**Wyzcrak** · 08-11-2005, 02:08 PM

There's nothing (read: very little) unique about cheats when comparing between CS and NS.

Wallhacks are wallhacks.

Aimbots are aimbots.

Speedhacks are speedhacks.

I once read a statement in a Java board in which I was participating. It said "Don't learn Java. Learn logic." The author's point was that Java is just one implementation (one language) of logic, and that anyone can apply to any new language the logic they learn before.

The same applies here. I would recommend to someone that he not be concerned with NS (Half-Life maybe, yes...) when learning to detect who's cheating and who's not. The details of the implementation of cheating will change from game to game, but the details of what motivates one to cheat, and what characteristics one can observe in his behavior will stay pretty much the same as long as the game genre doesn't change too much.

Yes, it would be nice if someone created a site dedicated to NS cheats and the behavior patterns that follow them, but the presence of ample CS cheat detection resources serves the need sufficiently.

**Iceberg** · 08-11-2005, 03:11 PM

Quote:

NS cheats and the behavior patterns that follow them

I think this is the biggest obstacle ATM. NS gameplay is so different the CS that regardless of knowing the logic behind how a cheat works, its pretty damn difficult to spot in NS.

**Wyzcrak** · 08-11-2005, 03:57 PM

It is difficult on principle, yes, but not that much harder in NS than it is in CS.

Yes, there's MT and hivemind to consider. Yes, scripts seem more relevant in NS than in CS (in attention given if not attention deserved). Yes, your pub NS player might be fed more SA information from his teammates than will a pub CS player.

But, despite all that (and more), the discrepencies among ONE player's behaviors (as opposed to those among the behaviors of many players) are pretty consistent when comparing CS cheaters to NS cheaters.

If a guy makes lots of gameplay mistakes... lots of amateur field assumptions... and yet has impeccable SA and aim, your alarms should go off. At that point, you begin the investment of time trying to DISPROVE your suspicions. You review the demos.. looking... SEARCHING.... TRYING to find something YOU missed in your original observation... something that can EXPLAIN his performance despite the odds as you first perceived them.

Efforts like that -- once you tackle the considerations of hivemind, MT, etc -- aren't too differnt than those spent by a seasoned CS admin.

Enigma · 08-11-2005, 05:31 PM

Yeah, his aim was always dead on like he had been playing NS forever, but he moved very slow, like he downloaded the game a few days ago (which he did).

HairyNevus · 08-11-2005, 06:08 PM

....I like VAC2. It is a good thing. VAC2 will help HL mods like Natural Selection or The Specialists with hackers but inadequate cheating-detecting programs. Though cheating-death recently did focus more on third party mods and not just CS, VAC2 will provide an immanent base for cheating detection without any additional clientside plugins.

Kerostasis · 08-11-2005, 07:37 PM

Having so many different legitimate wall-hack like abilities in the game (motion, scent of fear, parasite, scanner sweep, enemies showing up on marine minimap, high dependence on sound cues, commander assistance, etc) makes establishing wall-hack like cheats a lot more difficult in NS. Aimbots and Speedhacks still show up fairly easily though--I don't honestly know how anyone can run a speedhack and not think they'll be noticed.

08-10-2005, 09:06 PM	#16 (permalink)
Karkianman101 Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: East Lansing Age: 20 Posts: 1,546	Re: VAC2 hits NS What was he doing? I'm just curious.

08-10-2005, 09:42 PM	#17 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: VAC2 hits NS I don't recall. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

08-10-2005, 10:07 PM	#18 (permalink)
Karkianman101 Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: East Lansing Age: 20 Posts: 1,546	Re: VAC2 hits NS Some unnamed people apparently thought I was asking why he was banned 0_o JIC nobody coughHairyNevuscough understands simple wordings, I meant specifically what cheats

08-10-2005, 10:11 PM	#19 (permalink)
Enigma Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: North Carolina Age: 68 Posts: 264	Re: VAC2 hits NS An aimbot and a wallhack. __________________ "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one conciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather."

08-10-2005, 10:14 PM	#20 (permalink)
Karkianman101 Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: East Lansing Age: 20 Posts: 1,546	Re: VAC2 hits NS Ah. Jesus, those are 2 very hard to prove ones (since surround sound headphones and keenly honed reflexes can have the same affect). He must have been really showing it.

08-10-2005, 11:07 PM	#21 (permalink)
Iceberg Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Illinois Age: 25 Posts: 1,929	Re: VAC2 hits NS Wyz, is there any chance those demos can be used to teach other players who arent keen on catching these cheats? __________________ It only takes 2 bites [insert parasite] to get to the center of a meatpop. TGNS Admin \| NS Forum Moderator Digz \| NS Play Tester Natural Selection \| TGNS Primer \| Communication Awareness! Army Info: Deployment or Bust - June 2009

08-10-2005, 11:22 PM	#22 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: VAC2 hits NS No, there's not. There are ample CS resources for learning such skills. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

08-11-2005, 02:08 PM	#25 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: VAC2 hits NS There's nothing (read: very little) unique about cheats when comparing between CS and NS. Wallhacks are wallhacks. Aimbots are aimbots. Speedhacks are speedhacks. I once read a statement in a Java board in which I was participating. It said "Don't learn Java. Learn logic." The author's point was that Java is just one implementation (one language) of logic, and that anyone can apply to any new language the logic they learn before. The same applies here. I would recommend to someone that he not be concerned with NS (Half-Life maybe, yes...) when learning to detect who's cheating and who's not. The details of the implementation of cheating will change from game to game, but the details of what motivates one to cheat, and what characteristics one can observe in his behavior will stay pretty much the same as long as the game genre doesn't change too much. Yes, it would be nice if someone created a site dedicated to NS cheats and the behavior patterns that follow them, but the presence of ample CS cheat detection resources serves the need sufficiently. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

08-11-2005, 03:57 PM	#27 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: VAC2 hits NS It is difficult on principle, yes, but not that much harder in NS than it is in CS. Yes, there's MT and hivemind to consider. Yes, scripts seem more relevant in NS than in CS (in attention given if not attention deserved). Yes, your pub NS player might be fed more SA information from his teammates than will a pub CS player. But, despite all that (and more), the discrepencies among ONE player's behaviors (as opposed to those among the behaviors of many players) are pretty consistent when comparing CS cheaters to NS cheaters. If a guy makes lots of gameplay mistakes... lots of amateur field assumptions... and yet has impeccable SA and aim, your alarms should go off. At that point, you begin the investment of time trying to DISPROVE your suspicions. You review the demos.. looking... SEARCHING.... TRYING to find something YOU missed in your original observation... something that can EXPLAIN his performance despite the odds as you first perceived them. Efforts like that -- once you tackle the considerations of hivemind, MT, etc -- aren't too differnt than those spent by a seasoned CS admin. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

08-11-2005, 05:31 PM	#28 (permalink)
Enigma Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: North Carolina Age: 68 Posts: 264	Re: VAC2 hits NS Yeah, his aim was always dead on like he had been playing NS forever, but he moved very slow, like he downloaded the game a few days ago (which he did). __________________ "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one conciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather."

08-11-2005, 06:08 PM	#29 (permalink)
HairyNevus Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN Age: 20 Posts: 869	Re: VAC2 hits NS ....I like VAC2. It is a good thing. VAC2 will help HL mods like Natural Selection or The Specialists with hackers but inadequate cheating-detecting programs. Though cheating-death recently did focus more on third party mods and not just CS, VAC2 will provide an immanent base for cheating detection without any additional clientside plugins. __________________ "Adios...blimp" -Assy McGee "All of the body parts they will never find, except all the peices that I saved." -Dickie Moist "Mmmmm, Duraflame." -Mountain Man "I don't like Sci-Fi, I love LOVE LOVE it!" - Gordon Crisp

08-11-2005, 07:37 PM	#30 (permalink)
Kerostasis Join Date: May 2005 Age: 24 Posts: 2,736	Re: VAC2 hits NS Having so many different legitimate wall-hack like abilities in the game (motion, scent of fear, parasite, scanner sweep, enemies showing up on marine minimap, high dependence on sound cues, commander assistance, etc) makes establishing wall-hack like cheats a lot more difficult in NS. Aimbots and Speedhacks still show up fairly easily though--I don't honestly know how anyone can run a speedhack and not think they'll be noticed.

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