Re: combat sucks?

**CaveDog** · 04-05-2004, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by Emanon

HEHE, silly nothing, It just doesnt work like that. You try to execute clan play strats with pubs, it will hardly ever work. This was the whole reason why TR was started.

TR? I've heard of that somewhere....

I think suske and nothing are only driving ender and emanon's point home. You guys keep saying that it is cool in turney/clan play. They aren't arguing with that. They think that things get crappy when the pubs start in, which imho, is a foregone conclusion. A team-based game is going to suck with pub players at least 60% of the time. You just can't expect to heard cats (or skulks) with any percision for any length of time. Eventually, those cats are going to decide that the direction you want them to go is no longer the direction they choose, and they go off on their own.

You can organise strats all day, but if the strat takes more that 75% of the team to execute, gg. (ymmv, of course, depending on the pubs in question, we are arguing over the worst-case scenario, I think)

So, down with pubs. You can only have a certain level of game with a high percentage of pub players. So get rid of them? I don't think so. We have really gotten some great folks by being public that we are way better for. And we keep getting them. w00t.

**Wyzcrak** · 04-05-2004, 01:38 PM

The decision posed to the NS devs is not a new one. It's been presented time and time again. Many aspects of development can afford to target both audiences. Some aspects of development, however, must by their nature be targeted to EITHER clans OR pubs. That is because, while some problems impact both audiences, some problems impact only one audience or the other.

The fade is a perfect example. Zek's been talking about this since 2.x if not before, more specifically about the skill gap (which, speaking only for myself now, I would see as a problem impacting public play more than clan play). Yippie that it works for clans. But unless you're willing to alienate the casual player, the fade needs to change if balance is to be improved.

Wyzcrak

**NothingMore.** · 04-05-2004, 02:20 PM

I was reading that people were "Tired of ns" and the reasons listed.

Not that people "Were tired of pubs"

**CaveDog** · 04-05-2004, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by NothingMore.

I was reading that people were "Tired of ns" and the reasons listed.

Not that people "Were tired of pubs"

Consider it my treatise entitled "why people are tired of ns".

Emanon · 04-05-2004, 06:27 PM

Once again nothing look at the bigger picture, it isnt about just pubs but the game with pubs and the lack of development with the pub in mind. AkA your customer.

Every product must look at the end user. Look at the stats and see who your #1 priority. Its nice that clan play is balanced but Everyday play is middle of the road.

**NothingMore.** · 04-05-2004, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by Emanon

Once again nothing look at the bigger picture, it isnt about just pubs but the game with pubs and the lack of development with the pub in mind. AkA your customer.

Every product must look at the end user. Look at the stats and see who your #1 priority. Its nice that clan play is balanced but Everyday play is middle of the road.

The conversation was started because you said you were tired of ns. Cave said that the reson people were tired of ns is because of pubs. Lemme fix this.

Originally Posted by Emanon

Cavedog, look at the bigger picture, it isnt about just pubs but the game with pubs and the lack of development with the pub in mind. AkA your customer.

Every product must look at the end user. Look at the stats and see who your #1 priority. Its nice that clan play is balanced but Everyday play is middle of the road.

I didn't say anything about people being tired of morons, er, pubs. I can understand why you'd be tired of such play. My argument was that the game is balenced, when you have people of the same skill that play it. If you play counter strike with some one really good, and your really crappy, would you say the game was inbalenced because you are losing? I would say "I need to get better".

Emanon · 04-05-2004, 08:11 PM

Again a perfect world! I wish the game was Balanced for pub play, I wish we could have everyone on the same level and I wish there was light at the end of the tunnel.

Things that dont happen.

Nothing, we are talking about 2 things here, Cave was talking about pubs as in the players, im talking about public server. Two very alike but different things.

Many things have been talked about in this thread and you need to break them down and remember what each person is talking about.

Balance issues:
Clan play:
Pub Play:
Pub playERs:

Im not tired of pubs personally i love to help them learn and to talk to them, some are very interesting. But the balance of the game with public players is different with skilled players. (clan players)

This is the Reason this isnt the most played game out there. Cause it should, its the best game I have ever played, great combination of things that everyone loves. The fact is that its just not easy for players to learn how to play because of the skill gap that everyone talks about. You either suck or your great, its hard to find players in the middle. TG is one of the few you do find players in that area. No LEARNING CURVE.

**NothingMore.** · 04-05-2004, 08:20 PM

So you think NS is not balenced because of the public server?

... where the pubs play.

Where anyone, of any talent can come play...

"Balence the talent."

When we Balence the talent on our server, we get, on average, more balenced games.

Why is that? C'mon, answer.

And I'm still right in fixing your quote. You said pubs, cave dog said pubs, I didn't. I asked if pubs where indeed the reason you were "Tired of ns".

Emanon · 04-05-2004, 08:25 PM

Nothing, Pubs can mean 2 things. I refered to servers, cave is refering to players. PLEASE THINK.

Our server isnt a normal pub!

**NothingMore.** · 04-05-2004, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Emanon

Once again nothing look at the bigger picture, it isnt about just pubs but the game with pubs and the lack of development with the pub in mind. AkA your customer.

Every product must look at the end user. Look at the stats and see who your #1 priority. Its nice that clan play is balanced but Everyday play is middle of the road.

Are the servers now customers? I think this is a poorly constructed post.

Emanon · 04-05-2004, 08:34 PM

lol ok here is a lesson on marketing, you design a product for the end user. Now you must keep that user in mind that they will be using it the most. This is known as a public half life player. Now you make a product they use, the game you use must be made to suit their needs (easy to learn and balanced for THEM). This is what you call the game/server software. You don’t make a game that is only going to be enjoyable to 20% of your targeted audience. You make a game that is well balanced for the 80% that matter that use it 10 times as much.

Now you have a game that pubs can play on a pub and enjoy.

I think it was a poorly read post.

Emanon · 04-05-2004, 08:38 PM

Ill give the DEVs credit here, they have come a long way on balancing even though they are looking at the wrong crowd.

Its one of the first game that you have melee attack classes pinned against armed marines or shooters. (FPS)

I couldnt imagine all the little things that go into the game and im satisfied because im one of the more skilled plays along with many here and that is why we continue to play.

**NothingMore.** · 04-05-2004, 09:03 PM

It was definitly poorly constructed =P. Didn't your english teacher tell you that anything that a reader may have trouble understanding should be clairified? Assume your reader is an idiot, that way, when anyone reads it, they know exactly what you're talking about. So when you use a word that has a double meaning to it, I know what your talking about. pubs can mean any amount of things, it can be an irish bar =P. I can't spell worth three cents, but I'm pretty good in english. And when you highlighted "every day" you should have included "play". Because as it stands, it makes you look like you have turrets.

As for your lesson in marketing. The average pub player isn't donating money to NS.

The DEVs have come a long way in balencing. That's it. They came from nukes, to seiges. from skulks that over powered, to skulks that are built to do what they are supose to do. From Umbra that was invincible, to umbra that offered a great advantage. From onos that dominated, to onos that meat-shield. From bunny hopping marines, to realistic walking. From a pistol doom cannon, to a moderated pistol. I think, for the majority of pubs that don't give money, the DEVs have done alot for them.

Emanon · 04-05-2004, 10:13 PM

I wish wyz would take your class cause he confuses alot of people with his odd wording sometimes.

BTW, Flay is making a good amount of money, he doesnt need to worry about donations anymore. He has talent and is making deals as we speak.

Topic closed. Seems to have gone far off of combat, and isnt productive.

gg