Pokerface

Re-read what squeak said, and note that in no way is the thought process a subjective one (despite him later saying it's a judgement call :P). For the imbalance not to catch my eye, the game has to not only be in the bag, but you've been given your receipt and are taking the game out to the trunk of your car to drive home.

__________________

NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues.
Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality.
<anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity
<LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash
Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

Iceberg

I guess the boss is right

__________________
It only takes 2 bites [insert parasite] to get to the center of a meatpop.
TGNS Admin | NS Forum Moderator Digz | NS Play Tester
Natural Selection | TGNS Primer | Communication Awareness!
Army Info:
Deployment or Bust - June 2009

Spitelord

When the last rine is hiding in the vent or the last gorge is in some nook with 3 dcs and a few players quit. Well I don't want to switch. It's over right then. But other than that I'll switch if needed.

__________________
The alien fails because it cannot embrace the Emperor.

Wyzcrak

There's a bug with this plugin, which I think happens when a player (the loss of whom would begin the notifications) times out without properly disconnecting.

The plugin reviews the state of the server when a player disconnects, so this breaks the plugin.

The only way I know to correct this is to scan the server every X seconds, and this issue doesn't meet my burden of justification for adding to the server code that automatically runs every X seconds.

Does anyone else have any other ideas? If not, we just get to get used to not being notified when the teams are uneven due to someone timing out.

__________________
Steam Community? Add me. | Join #tacticalgamer | Search Results Legend | New Posts Forum Filter | Postbox Toggle | Live Thread Review | One Line Results | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

SwiftSpear

I find it EXTREMELY lame that this server starts offloading the winning team who worked hard for their victory at the end of the game to the losing team because the losing team has disconnected due to the broken nature of NS where it takes 15 minutes for the winning team to finish off the game after they have full tech and are pushing on the last stronghold.

It's far preferable IMO to have the occasional game poorly balanced due to rage quits then it is to have your whole server leave because they are being offloaded to the losing team after there is no chance for victory left.

[edit] additionally, the lowest scoring player on the team is quite often the player saving for hive/fade in the early game of NS, if they switch out they screw over thier team because a hive and fade are needed. The current system is REALLY poorly designed.

Wyzcrak

Ideally, we'd please everyone all the time.

__________________
Steam Community? Add me. | Join #tacticalgamer | Search Results Legend | New Posts Forum Filter | Postbox Toggle | Live Thread Review | One Line Results | Free Remote, Encrypted Backup

Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

Stupid

Me first.




In a serious response to SwiftSpear - sure there's warts in the system, but the nature of NS favors the aliens when they have the extra person. Sometimes this rule is enforced with strict adherence, sometimes it's relaxed a little depending on the situation. Marines are often quick to point out that they need the extra player right when they're trying to siege out the building 2nd hive. If the aliens are at an advantage at that point, the game is already won. If the teams are brought back to parity - the chances of the hive going up vs. being sieged out are about equal again. This server tries very hard to maintain balance between the two sides so that all games demand more than just "going through the motions." This server - more than any other I've played on - demands that people put forth extra effort and develop teamwork and ability to strategize together on the fly.

This is much more exciting gaming than what I've seen anywhere outside of competitive play.

In order to achieve this, we have to make some concessions sometimes. I like the system well enough as it is. The alien team has the discretion of sending over the player who just dropped an rt and has no res vs. sending over their early fade. It works.

__________________
Former TGNS admin until WoW blinded me with flashy lights.

blu.knight

As requested by you, posting my idea in here:
If you don't want to have to scan every x seconds, make it so that someone says "teams" will initiate a teamcount check. That way if someone disconnects there are humans who might catch it even if the plugin doesn't.

Everyone already goes "teams" when they become unbalanced, so it seemed like a nice elegant solution. :P

Kerostasis

Great idea! I second that!

__________________

SwiftSpear

I was forced to marines a good minute after aliens had gotten their third hive up and destroyed most of the marine res on the map. It's just irresponsible admining to push people trying to contribute to the winning team to the losing team literal minutes before the game is empirically over, if the marines had a chance of winning the good players wouldn't have rage quit and left the gap there to fill. I'm seriously wondering if it was just discrimination against me.

Rampage

Part of the expectation of playing on this server is doing what is generally agreed as best for the server experience. Not for your individual experience, although that should flow naturally from the former.

It was not discrimination against you; it was *perhaps* overzealousness on the part of the admin who was there at the time (and I have personally witnessed such occasions, not this one though).

It's really not for one player to arbitrarily decide when the "point of no return" has occurred in any one match. That makes decisions like this one easier; unless there's a clear reason why the last slot should stay put (and this has been enumerated countless times), the last slot player does the right thing and switches teams. It's nothing personal, as every "last slot" player is subject to this server expectation. If you feel you shouldn't switch because of some near-term goal you're trying to achieve, you should voice your position in a civil manner and accept the consensus of your team. As for pushing people who are "trying to contribute," well...I would counter that by stating if you're NOT trying to contribute, you should be pushed right off the server.

It's a game. You have the right to enjoy it, but you have the responsibility to keep it fun for the others, too.

That's my non-admin opinion. Take it for that only.

CryForMe

it's rare, but I have seen games that seemed all but ended turn around and become huge upsets on this server. about a week and a half ago, we played a game on lost where aliens had 3 hives up and the kill ratio was ridiculous, but somehow, a lone marine managed to sneak into cargo and set up a siege which took down the hive and all of the aliens SC's. Fades without focus are kinda weak in a situation where the marines have now rallied and have HMGs and lvl 3 shotties. Bottom line is, aliens went from 3 hives to none in a relatively short time as the marines then started to REALLY work as a team and just went on an ownage spree.

Now, not to say that this is common, but it does happen, and regardless of whether the extra man being shifted to the unbalanced team makes a difference, its what has been decided to be best for the server and overall gameplay. besides, if any one team is so close to winning that your help on the opposite team isnt going to make a difference, who cares if you switch and lose a minute of owning the other team. everybody wins some and everybody loses some. Dont join late or keep yourself off ythe bottom of the scoreboard and you wont really have to worry about it anyway

__________________
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity. - Lazarus Long

Agamemnon

Swift, as I was the one who switched you and I don't even know you, I'm not sure how it was discriminatory. Perhaps I dislike people with weapons in their name (ooh "spear", this guy sounds violent!)? But seriously, I have seen many comebacks on this server from 3 hives. Just yesterday I was on the alien side in a game where we had 3 hives and lost. In this specific instance teams had been unbalanced for over a minute, nobody on aliens was willing to switch (I asked several times as I recall), and we were not currently in the process of destroying their base. In contrast to "offloading" the entire team you were the only one switched there, which resulted in balanced teams right up to the end. I'd make the same decision again, regardless of who was at the bottom of the list (and yes, I've been in that situation and switched, as have most people on the server by now).