Re: Marine Extra Man Plugin Discussion

**LazyEye** · 06-20-2006, 08:41 AM

The problem:
Teams are unbalanced, and need to be fixed immediately. Annoying voices are reminding you of this every 8 seconds.

The solution:
Even the teams immediately

Connections and how long they take are fickle, as are players in the readyroom. The expectation of the player is that these people should not be taken into account when considering team balance.

So if someone get slotkicked, fill the void. Don't presume that the SM will complete the connection in a reasonable amount of time, or at all. Fix the teams.

Is there a deeper issue I'm somehow missing?

Everytime this comes up on the server the answer is always "take it to the forums" and the only counter reply is just stating the current rule. I know we can't always assume someone will connect in a fair amount of time (it takes me around 10 seconds to connect, sometimes less) but most of the time someone with a res slot will join the server in a small amount of time. On the chance that the person that joined the server crashes or takes an extra long time to join the last person will just switch over like we always do, all it takes is about 15 seconds of waiting to see if someone successfully connected to the server.

Having the person on aliens switch immediately when someone is joining the server hurts gameplay more than if you just wait for the person joining to join the marine team. I have seen many times where a marine gets slot kicked, the last person on aliens switchs, then 5 seconds later someone joins aliens again, really an unneeded team switch. I have also seen someone get slot kicked on marines then the person with the slot joins marines fixing the teams, all happening in the span of about 10 seconds.

The other point is people in the ready room, and the point is there shouldn't really even be people in the ready room while a game is going on, they should be on a team playing. I have seen the teams unbalanced, there was 1 person in the ready room, an alien switches to marines fixing the teams, then the person in the ready room goes alien. That shouldn't happen at all, the person in the ready room should be forced onto a team.

**Wyzcrak** · 06-20-2006, 10:58 AM

This business about readyroom idlers on a very populated server isn't relevant to this conversation, for two reasons: a) it's too rare to warrant consideration; b) admins can solve it immediately every single time.

Originally Posted by LazyEye

Having the person on aliens switch immediately when someone is joining the server hurts gameplay more than if you just wait for the person joining to join the marine team. I have seen many times where a marine gets slot kicked, the last person on aliens switchs, then 5 seconds later someone joins aliens again, really an unneeded team switch.

I'll buy "unneeded", at times, but I can't say that, as a rule, the alien switching immediately "hurts gameplay more" than waiting a bit longer. If the alien team is smart about it, they send an alien who is expendable.

What "hurts gameplay more" is just about anything the marines try to do while their force is a full 25% smaller than that of the opposition.

Yes, I'll grant you that it's unpleasant being the actual alien who does the switching, but I don't normally see a grand competitive cost if it's done intelligently (by the team sending the player).

**Amagius** · 06-20-2006, 11:47 AM

I'm fine with the plug-in and don't see a reason to change it. If no alien is very expendable, then you just bunker up for the twenty seconds of .wav spam until someone enters, and if someone can switch over, they do.

The resblance modification makes this almost painless.

**dudewithagun** · 06-20-2006, 05:28 PM

I have to agree with lazyeye that immediately switching teams is pointless when a person is connecting and will join the teams within, say 10-15 seconds. I'm gratefull that this sever doesn't have a "Teams are uneven? O well that's the alien/marine problem" attitude. But there are so many factors to an NS game: rage quit / res control / rfk / K : D ratio / Map control / upgrade selection etc..etc..etc.. All were arguing here is how quick the teams will be evened, and how the plugin affects the gameplay.

My vote: Keep the plugin in as it is, but use common sense when switching teams.

**Turbinator** · 06-20-2006, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Warmonger

wait a friggin darn second here.........

I thought the whole point of this was because in the past, most people took 1-3 min to even the teams?

maybe if we have a better track record of not taking 1-3 min this would have never shown up?

oh previous link not working for me for the old discussion

QFT

**Rampage** · 06-20-2006, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by Turbinator

QFT

Perhaps, but that quoted section was as rare (in my experience) as the idlers in the ready room.

Shall we dismiss this statement as quickly, then?

I don't see the value that forcing change (and annoying the hell out of people) adds over text messages from supporting members.

Technically speaking, it's a neat plugin. Tech factors don't outweigh common sense and the human factor.

**Irish Pirate** · 06-20-2006, 09:55 PM

Sometimes I need the sound or I don't notice. The first time I joined after this plugin was enabled I hear the sound, thought to myself "what is going on? I'm on marines and I'm hearing an alien thing", went to type something into mm1, and saw the text saying teams needed balancing. It's easy to get caught up in the game, but the sound probably doesn't need to be played more than once or twice. People should hear it the first time, and fix the problem.

As for slotkicking, it sounds to me like the slotkick is disrupting play more than it should. Would it be possible to make it kick the player who can be removed without unbalancing teams? If marines have the extra player use the same logic but select a marine, if the teams are even boot an alien. This would make the most sense to me. That way even if something happens to the SM so they don't join, people are ignoring the plugin, and the edges of our minds are being eating away by invisible leeches no one will care.

**blu.knight** · 06-21-2006, 02:18 AM

I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but an alien switching over to marine can be exceptionally damaging (or the other way around) if one team is trying to do something without the other noticing.

Now this might not be called good strategy, but it happens often enough, and I've seen many times when somebody switches and immediately has some intel for us. That's not normally a good thing, and cause much more disruption to a game than a little bit of time with the teams uneven.

**zibalatz** · 06-21-2006, 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by blu.knight

Now this might not be called good strategy, but it happens often enough, and I've seen many times when somebody switches and immediately has some intel for us. That's not normally a good thing, and cause much more disruption to a game than a little bit of time with the teams uneven.

This is cheating, pure and simple. It is punishable by DEATH.

But seriously if you see someone do this, you should contact an admin, who will kick and/or ban the offending player.

**aeroripper** · 06-21-2006, 02:42 AM

Originally Posted by blu.knight

Now this might not be called good strategy, but it happens often enough, and I've seen many times when somebody switches and immediately has some intel for us. That's not normally a good thing, and cause much more disruption to a game than a little bit of time with the teams uneven.

Yea I think that is really bad sportsmanship. I would discourage it if anybody tries it, or let an admin know about it as they will probably get removed.

**Wyzcrak** · 06-21-2006, 10:20 AM

I've kicked for that behavior in the past.

It's cheating. Unintentional, usually, as people don't think it all the way through, but, at some point, I stop caring. Kick.

**Irish Pirate** · 06-21-2006, 01:25 PM

I usually remain silent about strategic plans for a few minutes after switching. By then at least one other person on my new team figures out everything I knew.

This is a fairly minor case, but I was in one game where I had just switched over from the marines and people on aliens were asking and trying to figure out if the marines had MT. I could have said "They have MT, I was just on that team" but it's the type of thing they can figure out anyway.

Is it wrong to hunt down all the chambers you dropped because you know where they all are? I usually try to hide my chambers so they last, but once I'm on the other team I'm free to take out any sensory net or hive mcs I've hidden around the map. It doesn't seem to do my placement justice. In cases like that I like to think about which team is ahead at that point. If marines are behind and I think it will make a closer and more interesting game I am more likely to kill my own chambers.

**Wyzcrak** · 06-21-2006, 01:29 PM

I don't act directly on knowledge I have only from having been on the other team. What I /will/ do, in your chambers example, Irish, is wait for my team to otherwise learn what I already knew, at which point I'll often begin my plan for acting on that knowledge, which often begins forming immediately after I switch teams.

So, yeah... I'll think in my head about how I'm going to counter the creations I've just left, but I don't act on those thoughts until my new team learns, without my extraordinary help, what we're up against.

**Rampage** · 06-21-2006, 05:45 PM

What about the idea of having the slotkick go for the team which would not create unbalance? That would solve several problems at once, but I have no clue if it's technically feasible.

**dudewithagun** · 06-21-2006, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by Wyzcrak

I've kicked for that behavior in the past.

It's cheating. Unintentional, usually, as people don't think it all the way through, but, at some point, I stop caring. Kick.

Yeah I did that once about a year ago. All I remember is wyz coming out of my computer monitor, in the same fasion as that girl from the ring, to beat me

.

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