Re: Marine Extra Man Plugin Discussion

**TheAdj`** · 06-22-2006, 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by Wyzcrak

I've kicked for that behavior in the past.

It's cheating. Unintentional, usually, as people don't think it all the way through, but, at some point, I stop caring. Kick.

Worst agony I've ever had in a game of NS: Knowing wyz was going to mine rush a hive in a captain's game, being switched, and having to shut my mouth about it

Baby Jesus cried.

**blu.knight** · 06-22-2006, 02:17 AM

the only problem with the whole 'speak no evil' method is that you still know about it, and if you were just playing normally you may go down some hallway that happens to have a seige, but since you just switched teams and no one on your team yet knows... do you go down that hallway? do you not?

It gets complicated when you need to start considering about what you would do normally if you didn't already know that something was there. Even if you don't mean it, knowing it is there will either make you want to avoid it more or go to it more. Point is, the knowledge is changing how you're acting, even if you don't tell your team about it. Point is, if you didn't have the knowledge, you might have happened upon it sooner and thus given your team enough time to counter it...

I'm really tired, I hope you can see my point through the mess. (I can see clearrllyyy now the raiinnn is gone.)

**Irish Pirate** · 06-22-2006, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Rampage

What about the idea of having the slotkick go for the team which would not create unbalance? That would solve several problems at once, but I have no clue if it's technically feasible.

People are ignoring us!

I can only assume it's possible, but ideas like this are so easy to create and potentially very had to implement. Wyz is probably the one who will supply the answer to that question, and also implement it if it's not too much trouble. Knowing this tends to make me feel worse about these suggestions because I don't like volunteering other people to do things.

In theory anyway, this change would make sense with or without the balance plugin even though it only seems to be an issue now that people are irritated by the plugin.

**Pokerface** · 06-22-2006, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by Irish Pirate

People are ignoring us!

I can only assume it's possible, but ideas like this are so easy to create and potentially very had to implement. Wyz is probably the one who will supply the answer to that question, and also implement it if it's not too much trouble. Knowing this tends to make me feel worse about these suggestions because I don't like volunteering other people to do things.

In theory anyway, this change would make sense with or without the balance plugin even though it only seems to be an issue now that people are irritated by the plugin.

That is feasible. It is in no way fair.

**Eclipse** · 06-22-2006, 10:08 PM

Honestly I think it's fine the way it is right now, but if we were to change the time I'd be okay with that. I just wanted to chime in on this little bit right here...

What about the idea of having the slotkick go for the team which would not create unbalance? That would solve several problems at once, but I have no clue if it's technically feasible.

I'm sure it couldn't be THAT difficult to code, but the problem is, basically your saying is that when a person joins a full game, the last person on the alien team gets kicked. 9 times out of 10, that's the most expendable person. Unfortunetley, and I know I'd probably be personally guilty of this if I had just joined a full server, every new round I would MASH the CRAP out of my F1 button to try and increase my odds of getting on marines, because now I know I'm almost immune to getting slot kicked.

And yes, I understand that might not be the most noble of virtues, but I would not be alone, although, I'm just being honest.

That would be the biggest problem I can forsee of changing the slot kick values to that.

**Wyzcrak** · 06-22-2006, 10:29 PM

Eclipse's scenario is why I can't get excited about the "bump to avoid imbalance" design. If someone wants to solve that problem while we're brainstorming, I'm all ears.

**Iceberg** · 06-22-2006, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by Wyzcrak

If someone wants to solve that problem while we're brainstorming, I'm all ears.

Fork over the equivalent of going to the theatre once a month... and become an SM. A server filled with SMs will not have the problem of losing players due to slot kicks.

**Wyzcrak** · 06-22-2006, 11:10 PM

You know, that's a good point, squeak.

Slot kicks are a necessary evil, but it would be nice if we could play without them. The only way to experience that, of course, is to fill the server with SMs, which we've done before.

We enjoy really good games every night as the guests are removed to make room for regulars, SM and otherwise. Yes, it's our friends which are joining us, but the constant coming and going of folks interrupts the "flow", socially and competitively.

Just as our gameplay is raised by the invasion each night of friends and regulars, it would be raised again if we could regularly (though not always -- new blood is vital) /fill/ the server with folks who are 100% immune from having their gameplay interrupted.

I love the growth that constant new blood provides, but being able to play 4 or 5 consecutive games with the same 16 people, distributed well onto two balanced teams (captains games or whatever) would be sublime, I'm sure.

**Irish Pirate** · 06-23-2006, 12:28 AM

The realization now occurs that slotkicking only takes place when the server is full, and here I thought I was on to something.

At least complaints about the sounds imply the relative success of the plugin by inspiring people to balance faster.

**Rampage** · 06-23-2006, 08:01 AM

You guys have a good point about people trying to get on Marines just so they won't have to switch. I don't have an answer for that, but if I dream something up you'll find out.

**TheAdj`** · 06-24-2006, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Irish Pirate

The realization now occurs that slotkicking only takes place when the server is full, and here I thought I was on to something.

At least complaints about the sounds imply the relative success of the plugin by inspiring people to balance faster.

My problem is it isn't inspiring people to do anything, it's ANNOYING people to do something. I know people are not so dense as to not be able to notice text on the screen, there isn't a need to audibly spam me about the teams, especially when it's one of the situations we've already described causing almost all of the problems. I have also encountered the "lol switch 4 times as people slotkick everyone" issue others have mentioned, and it's incredibly frustrating to the player it is happening to. The server's overall gameplay obviously comes first, but this is something which can be resolved so it does not interrupt or flat-out ruin an individual's gameplay experience because of a bad ruling precedent while keeping the server's gameplay intact.

**Kerostasis** · 06-24-2006, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by TheAdj`

I know people are not so dense as to not be able to notice text on the screen.

I disagree completely. NS is a very intense game, and there are usually half a dozen different things going at once that you are trying to pay attention to. Witness the periodic forum-threads urging people to spend all of their non-combat time staring at their maps, which I often do myself. Its VERY easy for text to get lost in the shuffle. I can't tell you how many times I've had someone complain at me over voice-com that I wasn't reading their text messages (or more often another player relay the message). And specifically relating to this plugin, when I hear the voice spam, thats when I have to STOP whatever I'm doing to specifically search for on-screen text to explain the situation. If it wasn't for the voice, I'd never see it.

Keep the voice.

**Irish Pirate** · 06-24-2006, 11:13 PM

What Kero said.

Maybe The two of us are just "too dense"

.

**Rampage** · 06-25-2006, 02:27 PM

I don't see why we can't at least try text spam (maybe with a quick beep, very brief) over and over. Say every 5 seconds.

**Slurgi** · 06-25-2006, 03:17 PM

My opinion:

I think the plug-in is great when the server capacity is < 15. The problem, though, is that when capacity is at 15 players, the case is almost always that an sm kicked out a ? player. The period between the player getting kicked and the new player joining seems to be < 15 seconds, which makes the plug-in do more harm than good.

There are two problems with the plug-in. In a game yesterday afternoon, I was forced to switch teams and was our 'hive' gorge. This can really hurt a team. That's a lot of concentrated res and an important job to lose. Also, later on I was forced to switch teams twice in the same game (unnecessarily, might I add), and it's very hard to enjoy the game as a 'yo-yo' player, not to mention how demoralizing it is.

Edit: Oh, and that was the day I was a bit of a... potty-mouth. I was a bit high-strung. My apologies to all those who witnessed.

My $.02

Thread Tools

Display