Re: players given more discretion regarding "extra man" rule timing

**Wyzcrak** · 09-14-2007, 08:04 PM

That risk can be largely (not completely) mitigated by welcoming new players to the server when they arrive.

Toooo often, players don't address new folks until they need something from them. "Bob, can you drop chambers?" -- "Bob, get to double." -- "Bob, SWITCH TEAMS!"

When new players arrive, we should each of us "screen" them. Say hello. Make sure they say hello back.

Once that's out of the way, the guy's much more likely to understand your call for action regarding the unbalanced teams.

It's not perfect, but it's better than what I too often see. We can and should do better with greeting and screening new faces.

--
It occurred to me, after I posted the thread-resurrecting comment, that I've certainly had instances lately in which I had to clean up others' team-fixing messes, by "sending" myself or another. We're not perfect by any measure, and our failures too often follow our allowing strangers into our house without even so much as saying "Hello!".

**Headroller** · 09-14-2007, 08:08 PM

All this discussion about the formalites on team balancing is kinda hurting my brain. Is it really so hard to understand fix the teams swiftly and fairly

**Vendetta** · 09-21-2007, 04:10 PM

Not really. People just have a tendency of making things more difficult then needed. :P

**Stupid** · 09-26-2007, 04:46 PM

Without rules discussions, the forums would be a dry, dusty place.

**tr0gd0r3** · 09-26-2007, 06:13 PM

Have we ever discussed possibly changing the rule to team adjustments based on which team is winning, not marines always getting the advantage?

If it's 8 on 7 for Aliens, and Aliens are noticeably losing, I fail to understand why it's fair for the Alien team to surrender a player as quickly as possible to the marines...
I personally feel team adjustments should be made if no one has joined within 30 or so seconds, and the teams are ... key word here: "noticeably" unbalanced. (This doesn't apply to a two, or more player disadvantage, as the teams should then be adjusted immediately)

Someone's bound to join quickly, especially in peak hours, with a full server.
Why effect a single users experience based on an insignificant player difference that will have very little impact on the outcome of a game?

Hear me out here. This isn't a plead, or a whine. I think it's worth TRYING out.

**Rampage** · 09-26-2007, 08:01 PM

The problem is coming up with an objective (i.e. programmable) way to determine who is winning.

Marines have more kills? What if all 3 hives are up? What if marines are fully teched? Lots of variables.

**Wyzcrak** · 09-27-2007, 02:06 AM

if (team.contains(Zek)) {

winning = false

}

**tr0gd0r3** · 09-27-2007, 03:27 AM

Originally Posted by Rampage

The problem is coming up with an objective (i.e. programmable) way to determine who is winning.

Marines have more kills? What if all 3 hives are up? What if marines are fully teched? Lots of variables.

So if it isn't noticeable, no change is needed.

And like I said earlier, if there's a full server, odds are a persons going to join within 15 seconds anyways.
Why make someone switch halfway through a game when 15 seconds later, someone else will join?

**Pokerface** · 09-27-2007, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by tr0gd0r3

So if it isn't noticeable, no change is needed.

And like I said earlier, if there's a full server, odds are a persons going to join within 15 seconds anyways.
Why make someone switch halfway through a game when 15 seconds later, someone else will join?

Because you don't know that for certain, and what's happening on the server RIGHT NOW is more important than what MIGHT happen in 15 seconds.

**Rampage** · 09-27-2007, 09:07 AM

Bingo.

**Stupid** · 09-27-2007, 11:18 AM

Bingo? Have I missed some new NS gameplay mode? MY BINGO TEAM IS UNEVEN!

**Agamemnon** · 09-27-2007, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by tr0gd0r3

Have we ever discussed possibly changing the rule to team adjustments based on which team is winning, not marines always getting the advantage?

If it's 8 on 7 for Aliens, and Aliens are noticeably losing, I fail to understand why it's fair for the Alien team to surrender a player as quickly as possible to the marines...
I personally feel team adjustments should be made if no one has joined within 30 or so seconds, and the teams are ... key word here: "noticeably" unbalanced. (This doesn't apply to a two, or more player disadvantage, as the teams should then be adjusted immediately)

Someone's bound to join quickly, especially in peak hours, with a full server.
Why effect a single users experience based on an insignificant player difference that will have very little impact on the outcome of a game?

Hear me out here. This isn't a plead, or a whine. I think it's worth TRYING out.

So my feeling on this is that I don't enjoy being on either side of a game that was a "comeback" because of uneven teams. Even if marines clearly have the upper hand, I don't agree with keeping the extra on aliens to give them a better chance of reversing things.

From the marine perspective, you've done something to earn that win, and seeing a game lost primarily because the other side was unwilling to fix the teams is one of the main reasons I rarely play on any other server. At any point, a team's chance of winning is dependent on what they've done in the game up to that point, which is the way it should be. Adding an external factor to deliberately hurt the team that has been doing everything right seems somewhat unjust.

From the alien perspective, I don't get anything out of a win I know I didn't deserve. Winning because a hive was bugged, or a comm or crucial lifeform was slotkicked, or because of a refusal to fix the teams, just isn't enjoyable.

The smaller team already has the discretion of whether or not the imbalance should be fixed, and that's where the decision should remain. If marines feel that it's over (in either direction) and therefore don't need the extra, they don't (or at least shouldn't) call for it.

**mr. pie** · 09-27-2007, 06:34 PM

I think something that needs to be considered is the formation of a committee system to adjucate in the case of one team having more or less players than the other team.

Each team would elect 3 players to be representatives to discuss the issue with the other team. They would meet an agreed upon location like marine start or something and then everyone else who was playing would just stop doing anything so they had time to talk about it. The elected representatives would then get to decide which team is currently at a disadvantage due to a discrepincy in team size and then nominate a candidate for changing teams.

In some circumstances the balance might be more complicated and multiple players on both teams would have to switch. Like if it was 8a v. 7m but one of the marines also has to go soon and one of the alien players really wants to play marines but he is a fade at the time and so the marines trade two playrers to aliens and then get 4 players in return and lets the aliens drop a second hive in return for the nodes at supply way and mineral.

**Wyzcrak** · 09-27-2007, 10:40 PM

And THAT is why you refer to him as MR. pie.

**tr0gd0r3** · 09-28-2007, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

So my feeling on this is that I don't enjoy being on either side of a game that was a "comeback" because of uneven teams. Even if marines clearly have the upper hand, I don't agree with keeping the extra on aliens to give them a better chance of reversing things.

From the marine perspective, you've done something to earn that win, and seeing a game lost primarily because the other side was unwilling to fix the teams is one of the main reasons I rarely play on any other server. At any point, a team's chance of winning is dependent on what they've done in the game up to that point, which is the way it should be. Adding an external factor to deliberately hurt the team that has been doing everything right seems somewhat unjust.

From the alien perspective, I don't get anything out of a win I know I didn't deserve. Winning because a hive was bugged, or a comm or crucial lifeform was slotkicked, or because of a refusal to fix the teams, just isn't enjoyable.

The smaller team already has the discretion of whether or not the imbalance should be fixed, and that's where the decision should remain. If marines feel that it's over (in either direction) and therefore don't need the extra, they don't (or at least shouldn't) call for it.

You honestly think from 15 seconds of a one player difference, there'll be an unfair comeback?
I think that's pretty farfetched.

I don't think one more player on Aliens as aposed to marines will reverse anything.

The game should be dictated based on team work, not an extra player, and if it is, one team was doing something seriously wrong.
8v7 doesn't guarantee a win.

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