TGNS Server Two - Page 3

**Pokerface** · 01-16-2007, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yer Mom

I hate to be the outsider, but you probably won't see me reporting anyone. I'll do it if the disturbance is outrageous, but in most cases I won't report people.

Then I hate to be the tough-love admin, but if you don't report people, you won't see progress.

blu.knight · 01-16-2007, 10:36 PM

I really must agree, the kind of things gb are used for are not the people who will be reported to admins out of game. These are the people who just need to get a swift kick to realize that they need to change their attitude to play here or just not return.

You don't get that without people on the server who can police it and enforce what is tolerated.

Poker, as I said before these situations are situations of short time frames requiring immediate action. It's like punishing a dog when they do something wrong. It needs to be done immediately so as to change the behavior. These aren't the sort of things where people will come to an admin later unless it's a very extreme case.
The quality of the server is so high because we have enforced these rules so religiously. The less they enforced the more we will have to deal with retards.

PMing an admin is a long term response, gb was a short term. The people that get kicked by gb tend to be of the short term problem, not the long.

Yer Mom · 01-16-2007, 11:11 PM

Here goes the arguing with reality part again. Blu's got the nail on the head.

I realize that I won't see any progress against short term problems, because those problems will just be removed and never taught.

-Mom

**Ferris Bueller** · 01-16-2007, 11:18 PM

I understand the sentiment on both sides and I'll expand some. On Poker's behalf, he's right, people should be reporting things that go on as far as the servers go, not just saying "oh, well someone will catch it eventually cause we cant do anything about it right now". However, on the other side of the coin, the last post makes a valid point, PMing an admin does take a while, and 99% of the time isnt necessary.

What it boils down to is a twofold situation:
1.)As a community, we've come to respect and value our regulars. Part of that was their access to the GB command to solve minor disturbances that dont warrant PMing an admin and having them pull themseleves away from what they were doing OOG just to come GB someone who wont play right or an afk commander.
2.)With the community losing access to the GB command, many people feel helpless as far as doing these things. Sure, paging an admin has always been an option for solving the problems, but as stated, 99% of the time its not required and hasnt been used.

Yesterday was a perfect example. Both servers were full. I got on server 1 and it was populated with mostly regulars and a couple ?'s. Immediately on joining, i heard people saying that server 2 was full of ?'s who were out of control. I asked if there were any SMs or admins on the server already and when I found out there werent, I went over and took care of business. However, the people complaining that they couldnt do anything were people who previously had access to gb and could have solved the problem without any outside intervention before the change.

I guess the point is that we're now risking losing regulars because they can no longer help in controlling the situation on the server and it's an entire process to page an admin. Nobody really wants to interrupt their own gameplay to go call for help, they'll simply switch servers and go about their business while the problem remains. It's not the best situation, but its the truth.

Yer Mom · 01-17-2007, 12:06 AM

I see this in a different light, kinda. I'll take the time to go and call an admin if it's absolutely needed, but 9 out of 10 times it's not. 90% of the time, the problem can be solved in a fashionable way by the gb command.

The problem that I have with removing the gb command is the lack of power the people who are spreading the word have. For instance, if someone comes into the server and cusses up a storm and we tell them to watch their language and they persist, what can we do besides wait a possible hour for them to be kicked. They're probably gone by then, and they feel as if they have won. They will come back to interrupt our game play later... maybe there will be an admin present, maybe there won't.

That's my final post on the subject. You know what I want to happen, along with most of the other regulars. Don't take it as if we are feeling powerless, we just feel as if we can be on hand more than our admin can be. That's the best way I can put it.

-Mom

Curlydave · 01-17-2007, 08:06 PM

Can everyone connect to the server ok? I'm still seeing it as down from the IP in this thread and from the official server list.

**Dead_Meat** · 01-17-2007, 08:32 PM

well first a lil off topic here cool another server thanks folks

now back to topic
i don't quite understand why you would feel the need to kick someone for an action that you wouldn't feel the need to report them to an admin over. other than maybe an afk guy while the afk kicker isnt working.

**Ferris Bueller** · 01-17-2007, 08:46 PM

curly, server two still shows active for me, server one is still tgns.tacticalgamer.com

Kerostasis · 01-17-2007, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dead_Meat

well first a lil off topic here cool another server thanks folks

now back to topic
i don't quite understand why you would feel the need to kick someone for an action that you wouldn't feel the need to report them to an admin over. other than maybe an afk guy while the afk kicker isnt working.

Ooh! I can answer this one!

There's two types of players who need to be removed.
A) The player who is disruptive enough that we really don't want him around at all, unless he changes significantly. He should be banned, and if an Admin isn't on now, we can fetch one later via PM. He can always apeal the ban if he wants to change.
B) The player who is ALMOST good TG material, but just needs our rules pointed out in a more forceful way once or twice. He needs to be kicked with a "dont do that again" message, and then he won't do it again. He can immediately rejoin, and continue contributing to the server.

Case "B" does not warrant a ban, and if we aren't banning him, then there's no justification for calling an admin over after he's already left the server. Unfortunately, the option of temporarily kicking him to get his attention is unavailable without the GB command, unless there are Admins present.

**Dead_Meat** · 01-17-2007, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerostasis

Ooh! I can answer this one!

There's two types of players who need to be removed.
A) The player who is disruptive enough that we really don't want him around at all, unless he changes significantly. He should be banned, and if an Admin isn't on now, we can fetch one later via PM. He can always apeal the ban if he wants to change.
B) The player who is ALMOST good TG material, but just needs our rules pointed out in a more forceful way once or twice. He needs to be kicked with a "dont do that again" message, and then he won't do it again. He can immediately rejoin, and continue contributing to the server.

Case "B" does not warrant a ban, and if we aren't banning him, then there's no justification for calling an admin over after he's already left the server. Unfortunately, the option of temporarily kicking him to get his attention is unavailable without the GB command, unless there are Admins present.

ok i was unaware that calling an admin = bant
i figured they could keep check on things and if there are several complaints about a certian player then maybe bant but i feel they know how to deal with them.

i do favor the GB command i just don't agree with the argument that without it you just have to live with the unrully folks and i think most of the people we want to beome regulars can be reasoned with over voice and not need to be kicked.

perhaps the lack of the GB command will inspire others to become supporting menbers so they can use it again.

What we really need is a HW command where anytime there is something we don't like on the server we could type HW or "Hey Wyz" and then wyzcrak could pop out of some sort of vault and fix it.

Kerostasis · 01-17-2007, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dead_Meat

What we really need is a HW command where anytime there is something we don't like on the server we could type HW or "Hey Wyz" and then wyzcrak could pop out of some sort of vault and fix it.

Greatest idea ever. =)

But seriously, I suppose you could call an admin for a minor infraction--but if you're not asking for a player to be banned, then what exactly is the admin going to do after the player has already left the server?

Note that there's probably a perfectly obvious answer to that question that I'm missing, which is why I don't run the server.

**kormendi** · 01-17-2007, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerostasis

But seriously, I suppose you could call an admin for a minor infraction--but if you're not asking for a player to be banned, then what exactly is the admin going to do after the player has already left the server?

Log the infraction in the admin forum for future reference. If that player already has a history, it may be enough to earn a ban.

**Wyzcrak** · 01-17-2007, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerostasis

Note that there's probably a perfectly obvious answer to that question that I'm missing, which is why I don't run the server.

More of you need to adopt Kero's humility.

Dead's thoughts are more feasible than this thread would have the uninitiated believe.

Calling an admin != "bant". Korm's got the idea. We have several techniques that we use to deal with players, only the most ultimate of which is removal.

But enough of me talking, already. We're working on a response (which you may or may not like). Your thoughts are not being ignored.

**Ferris Bueller** · 01-18-2007, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyzcrak

Your thoughts are not being ignored.

and yet...still no pot pies being fedexed to our houses. mine are MOST DEFINITELY being ignored. <3 wyz

ThisistheREALSlink · 01-18-2007, 02:12 AM

Personally, I'm not going to tell people not to do anything unless I can actually back it up my self. Whether that's sexual preference slurs or whatever, unless I have the power to do something about it myself, I'm not going to rely on someone else to enforce my viewpoint. Even if I know it's a clear problem.

I would guess that the other problem with relying on an OOG notification for needing administration, is that I don't really think it's a common enough occurance to make it a regular habit.

E: Oh, one thing to just throw out there, lunixmonster used to use an irc channel, with admins and such idling in it. There was some sort of plugin, where if you typed something (i forget what) then it would send a notification to the irc channel.
Not really an idea I endorse, I would much prefer the GB command restored, but just throwing it out there all the same.

01-16-2007, 10:36 PM	#32 (permalink)
blu.knight Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 446	Re: TGNS Server Two I really must agree, the kind of things gb are used for are not the people who will be reported to admins out of game. These are the people who just need to get a swift kick to realize that they need to change their attitude to play here or just not return. You don't get that without people on the server who can police it and enforce what is tolerated. Poker, as I said before these situations are situations of short time frames requiring immediate action. It's like punishing a dog when they do something wrong. It needs to be done immediately so as to change the behavior. These aren't the sort of things where people will come to an admin later unless it's a very extreme case. The quality of the server is so high because we have enforced these rules so religiously. The less they enforced the more we will have to deal with retards. PMing an admin is a long term response, gb was a short term. The people that get kicked by gb tend to be of the short term problem, not the long.

01-16-2007, 11:11 PM	#33 (permalink)
Yer Mom Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: TN Age: 22 Posts: 789	Re: TGNS Server Two Here goes the arguing with reality part again. Blu's got the nail on the head. I realize that I won't see any progress against short term problems, because those problems will just be removed and never taught. -Mom __________________ Yer Mom /O> To all but me is the look given but never received. My heart sinks faster and faster every time I look into them, yet I do not understand their controling power on my soul. - W11114m W45h1n670n

01-16-2007, 11:18 PM	#34 (permalink)
Ferris Bueller Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Orlando, FL Age: 26 Posts: 5,160	Re: TGNS Server Two I understand the sentiment on both sides and I'll expand some. On Poker's behalf, he's right, people should be reporting things that go on as far as the servers go, not just saying "oh, well someone will catch it eventually cause we cant do anything about it right now". However, on the other side of the coin, the last post makes a valid point, PMing an admin does take a while, and 99% of the time isnt necessary. What it boils down to is a twofold situation: 1.)As a community, we've come to respect and value our regulars. Part of that was their access to the GB command to solve minor disturbances that dont warrant PMing an admin and having them pull themseleves away from what they were doing OOG just to come GB someone who wont play right or an afk commander. 2.)With the community losing access to the GB command, many people feel helpless as far as doing these things. Sure, paging an admin has always been an option for solving the problems, but as stated, 99% of the time its not required and hasnt been used. Yesterday was a perfect example. Both servers were full. I got on server 1 and it was populated with mostly regulars and a couple ?'s. Immediately on joining, i heard people saying that server 2 was full of ?'s who were out of control. I asked if there were any SMs or admins on the server already and when I found out there werent, I went over and took care of business. However, the people complaining that they couldnt do anything were people who previously had access to gb and could have solved the problem without any outside intervention before the change. I guess the point is that we're now risking losing regulars because they can no longer help in controlling the situation on the server and it's an entire process to page an admin. Nobody really wants to interrupt their own gameplay to go call for help, they'll simply switch servers and go about their business while the problem remains. It's not the best situation, but its the truth. __________________ \|TG-6th\|Ferris Bueller Important TG Reading \| Support TG - Become a Supporting Member \| TacticalWiki - Your TG Guide Kicked/Banned? READ THIS FIRST! \| Complete list of TG Admins \| Think Someone Did A Good Job? Nominate Them For a Ribbon! Report Problem Players/Appeal Your Ban \| Learn TG - The TG Mentoring Program __________________ "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." -Lazarus Long

01-17-2007, 12:06 AM	#35 (permalink)
Yer Mom Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: TN Age: 22 Posts: 789	Re: TGNS Server Two I see this in a different light, kinda. I'll take the time to go and call an admin if it's absolutely needed, but 9 out of 10 times it's not. 90% of the time, the problem can be solved in a fashionable way by the gb command. The problem that I have with removing the gb command is the lack of power the people who are spreading the word have. For instance, if someone comes into the server and cusses up a storm and we tell them to watch their language and they persist, what can we do besides wait a possible hour for them to be kicked. They're probably gone by then, and they feel as if they have won. They will come back to interrupt our game play later... maybe there will be an admin present, maybe there won't. That's my final post on the subject. You know what I want to happen, along with most of the other regulars. Don't take it as if we are feeling powerless, we just feel as if we can be on hand more than our admin can be. That's the best way I can put it. -Mom __________________ Yer Mom /O> To all but me is the look given but never received. My heart sinks faster and faster every time I look into them, yet I do not understand their controling power on my soul. - W11114m W45h1n670n

01-17-2007, 08:06 PM	#36 (permalink)
Curlydave Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Annandale, VA Age: 22 Posts: 132	Re: TGNS Server Two Can everyone connect to the server ok? I'm still seeing it as down from the IP in this thread and from the official server list.

01-17-2007, 08:32 PM	#37 (permalink)
Dead_Meat Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 208	Re: TGNS Server Two well first a lil off topic here cool another server thanks folks now back to topic i don't quite understand why you would feel the need to kick someone for an action that you wouldn't feel the need to report them to an admin over. other than maybe an afk guy while the afk kicker isnt working.

01-17-2007, 08:46 PM	#38 (permalink)
Ferris Bueller Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Orlando, FL Age: 26 Posts: 5,160	Re: TGNS Server Two curly, server two still shows active for me, server one is still tgns.tacticalgamer.com __________________ \|TG-6th\|Ferris Bueller Important TG Reading \| Support TG - Become a Supporting Member \| TacticalWiki - Your TG Guide Kicked/Banned? READ THIS FIRST! \| Complete list of TG Admins \| Think Someone Did A Good Job? Nominate Them For a Ribbon! Report Problem Players/Appeal Your Ban \| Learn TG - The TG Mentoring Program __________________ "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." -Lazarus Long

01-18-2007, 02:12 AM	#45 (permalink)
ThisistheREALSlink Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 21	Re: TGNS Server Two Personally, I'm not going to tell people not to do anything unless I can actually back it up my self. Whether that's sexual preference slurs or whatever, unless I have the power to do something about it myself, I'm not going to rely on someone else to enforce my viewpoint. Even if I know it's a clear problem. I would guess that the other problem with relying on an OOG notification for needing administration, is that I don't really think it's a common enough occurance to make it a regular habit. E: Oh, one thing to just throw out there, lunixmonster used to use an irc channel, with admins and such idling in it. There was some sort of plugin, where if you typed something (i forget what) then it would send a notification to the irc channel. Not really an idea I endorse, I would much prefer the GB command restored, but just throwing it out there all the same.

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