Let More Regs Play!

ChopStick · 01-26-2007, 01:40 AM

Okay, I'm sure I'm not the only one here who is frustrated by playing on a server half filled with question marked players.

My understanding on how the servers work now is the following: Only SMs can join full servers. When SMs join a full server, anyone can be kicked for their slot except fellow SMs.

This has definitely dropped the quality of play on our servers. I just left a game where a good player and solid regular of TG got slot kicked by an SM when there were about 6 or 7 question marked players on the server. I believe I am not alone in saying I would rather have that knowledgable, community member on the server than some random player whom no one knows.

What I would like see happen is the return of slot kicking for regular members. I would rather be playing with TG members who know the rules of our server than random players.

**Pokerface** · 01-26-2007, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChopStick

Okay, I'm sure I'm not the only one here who is frustrated by playing on a server half filled with question marked players.

My understanding on how the servers work now is the following: Only SMs can join full servers. When SMs join a full server, anyone can be kicked for their slot except fellow SMs.

This has definitely dropped the quality of play on our servers. I just left a game where a good player and solid regular of TG got slot kicked by an SM when there were about 6 or 7 question marked players on the server. I believe I am not alone in saying I would rather have that knowledgable, community member on the server than some random player whom no one knows.

What I would like see happen is the return of slot kicking for regular members. I would rather be playing with TG members who know the rules of our server than random players.

If the [?] player is on the server, then he should be playing to our standards (and can therefore remain without incident). Just because you don't know them doesn't mean that they're bad people.

If he is not playing to our standards, then he should be removed with one of the methods at the community's disposal for dealing with problem players.

ChopStick · 01-26-2007, 01:44 AM

Poker:
I did not intend to sound like I hate [?] players. If a player has taken the time to register on the website, spent the time to learn the rules, shouldn't they have priority over a random player who has joined our server for the first time?

Okay now I just read this post: http://www.tacticalgamer.com/natural...tml#post629381

I don't think it is working properly because I did witness a registered player get booted for an SM with many question marks still on the server.

EDIT: Lol. I just went to rejoin the server and the same thing happened. Slot kicked a good reg when their were 5 [?] players on it.

**Pokerface** · 01-26-2007, 01:54 AM

The new gb solution has changed that. Announcement is being finalized.

**Iceberg** · 01-26-2007, 02:46 AM

I actually prefer SMs kicking [?] before registered players as well. Not only do I want players who are playing at our standards, I want to play with friends and established community members. The current practice kind of tugs at the established community.

**Wyzcrak** · 01-26-2007, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squeak

The current practice kind of tugs at the established community.

In moderation, tugging on the established community can be a good thing.

Turbinator · 01-26-2007, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

The new gb solution has changed that. Announcement is being finalized.

How would the new gb solution help with what Chopstick described?

PS. I noticed that as well in last few days, that the prioritized kicking that was in effect at 3.1, is not working on 3.2.

**Pokerface** · 01-26-2007, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbinator

How would the new gb solution help with what Chopstick described?

PS. I noticed that as well in last few days, that the prioritized kicking that was in effect at 3.1, is not working on 3.2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

If the [?] player is on the server, then he should be playing to our standards (and can therefore remain without incident). Just because you don't know them doesn't mean that they're bad people.

If he is not playing to our standards, then he should be removed with one of the methods at the community's disposal for dealing with problem players.

It doesn't help it. It explains it.

blu.knight · 01-26-2007, 01:12 PM

I agree with Chopstick here, but I have some different logic behind this...

We shouldn't be kicking the players that are already registered. The ?'s should be first to go. If they aren't, there is no real incentive for them to go and register on the forums. If they don't register on the forums the chance that they get pulled into this community are far less. We should be encouraging them to start getting pulled into the community by making the extra effort of registering to these forums.

I don't like all these changes. It was working fine before. The removal of points is okay, the huge fight/debate/whatever over gb was not.
I just donated 80 dollars to you guys to keep the quality of play on this server at the high level I have become used to. Instead it seems that you guys are mixing things up with very little actual logic behind it, and with very little/no warning.

I'm not entirely against change. Change needs to be discussed more though as does the logic behind it, such abrupt change will never be greeted with pleasure.

Eh. I'm not entirely against this but you have an entire community in this server, and you are responsible to them as much as you are to SMs. Without the regulars this server is nothing.

**Wyzcrak** · 01-26-2007, 01:18 PM

The regulars are well taken care of with this latest design.

The only regulars who get bumped while unregistered players remain are those regulars who don't care enough about the server to even SOMETIMES take LIMITED responsibility for maintaining the quality they expect from it.

Meanwhile, as that regular is bumped, we retain a new face who we just might be able to mold into someone who does.

blu.knight · 01-26-2007, 01:21 PM

I see. How does it work when an SM joins then? Do the registered non-gb players and ?-players have the same chance of being kicked? Does it kick whoever has been on the server for the shortest time out of them?

**Wyzcrak** · 01-26-2007, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blu.knight

I see. How does it work when an SM joins then? Do the registered non-gb players and ?-players have the same chance of being kicked? Does it kick whoever has been on the server for the shortest time out of them?

Yes, and yes. The former is changed. The latter is not.

Bumping players has always been about bumping the most recently connected player who falls within whichever player group the server least prefers. We've changed who can join the full server (SM only), but that's outside the scope of what I'm about to explain. What's key is that we've changed which groups the server least prefers.

With registrations alone placing players in a preferred group, it was all too easy for regulars to really not give a damn about the server. Meanwhile, they were retained while strangers (who might one day care much more for the server than the regular who's retained) are removed.

With this new method, when a Supporting Member joins the full server, this is what the server says to itself when it's finding someone to bump (the crap about bad rates is old and unchanged, but I'll include it here for the sake of completeness):

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGNS

First, I scan all the non-SMs and look for someone with bad rates. If I find someone, he's bumped, and I'm done. Otherwise, I want to kick the most recently connected non-SM, registered or not, who is not opted-in for sharing 'gb'. I'll ignore/overlook all SMs and anyone who's opted-in, whether he's got 'gb' access right now or not.

(a non-SM is bumped, registered or not, or else the server continues to say to itself...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGNS

Hrm. Ok. There aren't any unregistered players, and the only remaining non-SMs have all opted-in. Now, I simply have got to bump the most recently connected non-SM.

(a registered non-SM is bumped, or, if all players are SMs, the joining SM is redirected to HLTV, and no one is bumped)

SMs are never kicked (not by SMs, not by admins -- though we can cheat from afar if need be

). Unregistered players cannot opt-in.

--
And so you see. No, regulars have no way to join the full server anymore. But otherwise, they enjoy the same protection they've enjoyed in the past, but now it comes with a COST.

Why put a cost on things when we didn't need one before?

Good question.

This server relies on two measurements of quality to remain the hallmark of Natural Selection that it is known as in North America: the highest-quality hardware/network, and the highest-quality playerbase.

This is YOUR server. It is yours to MINIMALLY maintain (full admins do the heavy lifting, on and off the server), and all we're asking is that you create remedies that serve *your* needs immediately. You're serving yourself, with instant gratification, as much as you are others.

And so Supporting Members MINIMALLY mitigate the server's costs by sending each month a fraction of the server's fiscal costs.

And, now, regulars who aren't SMs MINIMALLY mitigate the server's problem players. If they can't be bothered to contribute even that (a choice which comes without fiscal drivers), they're welcome now to enjoy SLIGHTLY less access to the server than they've enjoyed in the past. SLIGHTLY less. And that is so we can give slightly MORE access to folks who CAN be bothered to make that minimal contribution, both new faces and old.

It is the excellent maintainance of these two measurements of quality (hardware,SMs;playerbase,gb) which keeps TGNS worth coming back to night after night after night, and it is the *shared ownership* of that maintenance which inspires in a playerbase the community feel that creates the best TGNS (Tactical Gamer, indeed) has to offer.

lagarto · 01-26-2007, 04:44 PM

I have to admit I've had some awful games in TG since the 2 servers are up and the established community kind of split to play in both servers.

I wouldn't make so much drama though, since an awful game in TG is still better than your average game in another server. But I do miss somewhat some of the great games we used to have very often when the server was full of regs and no less.

Anyway, i think that having 2 servers, specially now with the recent releases of 3.2, may actually help new people trying out the game to enjoy. Since they have more chances of being helped here in TG than in other server. Even if it's not TG at its best.

Without making such an outcry myself, I'd like to see 1 server ran exactly the way before the split. That is, regs being able to bump non regs, ensuring that we get great games often with a server full of regulars.

The other server would still be there for helping new players and getting new members into the community. Eventually the first server would have more regs (grown in server 2) and variety still ensuring the great gameplay. I'd think of server 2 as a "training" for TG and NS newbies.

Kerostasis · 01-26-2007, 04:52 PM

That would virtually guarantee a discrepancy between the play-value on servers 1 and 2. Playing on server 2 would be strictly worse than server 1.

I much prefer the current setup, where both servers have a chance to shine.

lagarto · 01-26-2007, 05:06 PM

I know. Currently "both servers have a chance to shine", yeah, but to be honest I've rarely seen either of them do so.

There's the chance that things will get better in time, as we could get some "regular" non-regs that also like the server and enjoy playing by its rules. But so far I still liked better the way we played when there was only 1 server.

I'll gladly play the way the admins decide us to, though. After all it's still TG. I'm just giving my point of view.

01-26-2007, 01:40 AM	#1 (permalink)
ChopStick Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Toronto Age: 21 Posts: 289	Let More Regs Play! Okay, I'm sure I'm not the only one here who is frustrated by playing on a server half filled with question marked players. My understanding on how the servers work now is the following: Only SMs can join full servers. When SMs join a full server, anyone can be kicked for their slot except fellow SMs. This has definitely dropped the quality of play on our servers. I just left a game where a good player and solid regular of TG got slot kicked by an SM when there were about 6 or 7 question marked players on the server. I believe I am not alone in saying I would rather have that knowledgable, community member on the server than some random player whom no one knows. What I would like see happen is the return of slot kicking for regular members. I would rather be playing with TG members who know the rules of our server than random players.

01-26-2007, 01:44 AM	#3 (permalink)
ChopStick Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Toronto Age: 21 Posts: 289	Re: Let More Regs Play! Poker: I did not intend to sound like I hate [?] players. If a player has taken the time to register on the website, spent the time to learn the rules, shouldn't they have priority over a random player who has joined our server for the first time? Okay now I just read this post: http://www.tacticalgamer.com/natural...tml#post629381 I don't think it is working properly because I did witness a registered player get booted for an SM with many question marks still on the server. EDIT: Lol. I just went to rejoin the server and the same thing happened. Slot kicked a good reg when their were 5 [?] players on it.

01-26-2007, 01:54 AM	#4 (permalink)
Pokerface Join Date: May 2003 Location: MD, USA Age: 30 Posts: 5,787	Re: Let More Regs Play! The new gb solution has changed that. Announcement is being finalized. __________________ NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues. Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality. <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

01-26-2007, 02:46 AM	#5 (permalink)
Iceberg Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Illinois Age: 25 Posts: 1,931	Re: Let More Regs Play! I actually prefer SMs kicking [?] before registered players as well. Not only do I want players who are playing at our standards, I want to play with friends and established community members. The current practice kind of tugs at the established community. __________________ It only takes 2 bites [insert parasite] to get to the center of a meatpop. TGNS Admin \| NS Forum Moderator Digz \| NS Play Tester Natural Selection \| TGNS Primer \| Communication Awareness! Army Info: Deployment or Bust - June 2009

01-26-2007, 01:12 PM	#9 (permalink)
blu.knight Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 446	Re: Let More Regs Play! I agree with Chopstick here, but I have some different logic behind this... We shouldn't be kicking the players that are already registered. The ?'s should be first to go. If they aren't, there is no real incentive for them to go and register on the forums. If they don't register on the forums the chance that they get pulled into this community are far less. We should be encouraging them to start getting pulled into the community by making the extra effort of registering to these forums. I don't like all these changes. It was working fine before. The removal of points is okay, the huge fight/debate/whatever over gb was not. I just donated 80 dollars to you guys to keep the quality of play on this server at the high level I have become used to. Instead it seems that you guys are mixing things up with very little actual logic behind it, and with very little/no warning. I'm not entirely against change. Change needs to be discussed more though as does the logic behind it, such abrupt change will never be greeted with pleasure. Eh. I'm not entirely against this but you have an entire community in this server, and you are responsible to them as much as you are to SMs. Without the regulars this server is nothing.

01-26-2007, 01:18 PM	#10 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: Let More Regs Play! The regulars are well taken care of with this latest design. The only regulars who get bumped while unregistered players remain are those regulars who don't care enough about the server to even SOMETIMES take LIMITED responsibility for maintaining the quality they expect from it. Meanwhile, as that regular is bumped, we retain a new face who we just might be able to mold into someone who does. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

01-26-2007, 01:21 PM	#11 (permalink)
blu.knight Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 446	Re: Let More Regs Play! I see. How does it work when an SM joins then? Do the registered non-gb players and ?-players have the same chance of being kicked? Does it kick whoever has been on the server for the shortest time out of them?

01-26-2007, 04:44 PM	#13 (permalink)
lagarto Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 38	Re: Let More Regs Play! I have to admit I've had some awful games in TG since the 2 servers are up and the established community kind of split to play in both servers. I wouldn't make so much drama though, since an awful game in TG is still better than your average game in another server. But I do miss somewhat some of the great games we used to have very often when the server was full of regs and no less. Anyway, i think that having 2 servers, specially now with the recent releases of 3.2, may actually help new people trying out the game to enjoy. Since they have more chances of being helped here in TG than in other server. Even if it's not TG at its best. Without making such an outcry myself, I'd like to see 1 server ran exactly the way before the split. That is, regs being able to bump non regs, ensuring that we get great games often with a server full of regulars. The other server would still be there for helping new players and getting new members into the community. Eventually the first server would have more regs (grown in server 2) and variety still ensuring the great gameplay. I'd think of server 2 as a "training" for TG and NS newbies.

01-26-2007, 05:06 PM	#15 (permalink)
lagarto Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 38	Re: Let More Regs Play! I know. Currently "both servers have a chance to shine", yeah, but to be honest I've rarely seen either of them do so. There's the chance that things will get better in time, as we could get some "regular" non-regs that also like the server and enjoy playing by its rules. But so far I still liked better the way we played when there was only 1 server. I'll gladly play the way the admins decide us to, though. After all it's still TG. I'm just giving my point of view.

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