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Discussion: Natural Selection / Natural Selection - General Discussion - ns_machina_v2s - good idea on weldable removal to the Angel's hive. Cant seem to add anything that
  1. #16

    Turbinator's Avatar

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    Re: ns_machina_v2s

    good idea on weldable removal to the Angel's hive.

    Cant seem to add anything that would improve the map, other then to complement on the fact that its the only map I know of that allows the gorges to bile pg's and tfac's with ease from every hive.

    This map does come down to Res control more then a successful siege, at least from all the games I've played on v2.

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  3. #17

    Ferris Bueller's Avatar

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    Re: ns_machina_v2s

    the difference between machina and most maps we play is in the method in which you have to play the map. as turb pointed out, gorges can bile sieges and pgs pretty easily from all 3 hives. marines are going to have to adapt to that and find new and interesting places to siege from. along with all of the other facets of the map, it's a much more strategy oriented map than usual maps like eclipse or veil.

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  5. #18

    aeroripper's Avatar

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    Re: ns_machina_v2s

    After playing a lot of rounds on the 2s version, it seems the map is marine based, or aliens just need to know how to play it. Aliens have to be *very* aggressive on marine nodes from the start. Typically what happens almost every game is marines enter maus hive (aliens start tau\angel's) and get a PG up. A lerk gasses said PG and the aliens spend the next few min trying to get them out of maus since marines sort of gravitate there. Meanwhile another PG goes up in one of the empty hives since one marine snuck over there while the aliens were distracted.

    Even if aliens manage to clear maus hive finally, they still need to be very aggressive on their nodes during this whole process because they can hold at least 4 of them relatively easy.

    Marine easy nodes (almost automatic):
    Marine start
    Barren
    Arrival
    Northern

    Easy - Medium:
    Circumn
    Central Node Descent

    Hard:
    Tau
    Maus
    Turning Point
    Angel's

    And even those except maybe 2 are easy to hold if you own a PG in one of the vacant hives. Although having this many nodes usually guarantees marines getting proto tech which sometimes can lead to a longer game, but that is the exception.

    I'd say remove the central node descent node and put it somewhere more friendly for aliens so they can hold 4 nodes somewhat easily so they can even out a little versus marines. It seems every game I've played the most aliens could hold was 3, unless you count The Pit, but if they have a phase in Tau Ceti is a cakewalk to take that node down quickly, and then walk right into maus hive.

    If its still an option, remove (at least) one of the easy nodes for marines and give it to the aliens.

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  7. #19

    micr0c0sm's Avatar

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    Re: ns_machina_v2s

    Aeroripper is good at map analysis.

    What is very interesting about the map is its large areas. Whilst looking for a relocation spot I realized that almost every areas has 3 or more entrances for aliens. So relocating is not a great idea on this map. However, when marines are in the field, those entrances are so far apart that its easy to hold a position, even when aliens ambush.


    In general, the map has too many big open areas for skulks to be very useful, in groups or alone. The best strategy I have seen so far is actually of Ag's devising - 3 lerk control strategy. This makes the roles of the skulks to only bite nodes (seems to be their only use on this map), and 3 lerks to defend the three nodes that are put up. This worked really well last game and although the marines won (again by taking maus hive and while alien attention is on maus getting a PG in our building hive), the aliens were going really strong.

    In conclusion -> make some of the areas of this map (i would start with 25%) more claustrophobic somehow. I think that will fix some in field balance. Even with an 8v8 this map is huge.

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  9. #20

    blu.knight's Avatar

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    Re: ns_machina_v2s

    Add boxes! Lots of boxes! To hide behind! :P
    Wooden boxes!!

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  11. #21

    Kerostasis's Avatar

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    Re: ns_machina_v2s

    Or random machinery...

    Also remember skulks hate curved walls. Straight walls and 90º corners are the skulks best friend.
    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns.
    Yoshi MCF: The fact that you speak Wyz doesn't disprove his insanity. It only proves yours.
    Pokerface: It's now cheaper to put gas on my cereal. I am saddened.

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  13. #22


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    Re: ns_machina_v2s

    Large changes such as adding cover to the map is out of the question, sorry. I'm already dancing on the edge of the resource limit and it is pretty much impossible to add anything more than a couple of cubes before it refuses to compile :/


    The only change I have been considering making now is adding a vent from The Pit area to Central Node Descent, and also possible resource node changes - though that is riskier.

    It's kinda funny because in almost every game I've played on machina the marines have had their asses kicked

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  15. #23

    aeroripper's Avatar

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    Re: ns_machina_v2s

    I think it relies heavily on who's commanding. If the comm isn't really familiar with the map at all, or is fairly average at commanding, the marines may do poorly. Not sure, just have to keep playing games on it and hopefully aliens will do better with it.

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  17. #24

    Stupid's Avatar

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    Re: ns_machina_v2s

    aero....your avatar.... gives me the willies. Please change it back. Please.
    Former TGNS admin until WoW blinded me with flashy lights.

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  19. #25

    aeroripper's Avatar

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    Re: ns_machina_v2s



    Every time I play this map now I'm going to emphasize hitting their nodes hard the whole game. If aliens get complacent with it then marines will walk all over them. That is all

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  21. #26


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    Re: ns_machina_v2s

    I finally put my finger on why this map bothers me so much. It's not only that it's larger than most maps, giving slightly slower gameplay. It has too many RTs!

    Seriously, 11 RTs is way too many, and I believe is responsible why often there is such a stalemate on the map, creating games of 50+ min. Get rid of Northern Shell and Snakes Head.

    Also, Tau Ceti is painfully easy to kill with a JP and a sg. It looks good, but is so open it's tough for aliens to defend. As it stand right now Tau Ceti should ALWAYS be the last hive dropped.

    Just my 2 cents, hope it helps.

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  23. #27


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    Re: ns_machina_v2s

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkSeraph View Post
    I finally put my finger on why this map bothers me so much. It has too many RTs!
    Three recommendations:
    1. Less RTs; removing one of the ones by marine start would be good.
    2. Marine start needs to be much more onos friendly.
    3. South-east hive could be a little less JP-friendly

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  25. #28


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    Re: ns_machina_v2s

    Shiva also has 11 res nodes, but the last one is a weldable, although I rarely see it get capped.

    Caged and hera come immediately to mind as other maps that used to have an 11th, but the double res has been removed in both.

    I don't really see a need to remove one of the res nodes, but if all are left in, marines should have to work harder to keep them.
    aka Roland (the Headless Thompson Gunner; not of Gilead)

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  27. #29

    Kerostasis's Avatar

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    Re: ns_machina_v2s

    Rampage is another one sitting around with 11. Again, one is a weldable, although that one tends to be opened much more frequently.
    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns.
    Yoshi MCF: The fact that you speak Wyz doesn't disprove his insanity. It only proves yours.
    Pokerface: It's now cheaper to put gas on my cereal. I am saddened.

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  29. #30


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    Re: ns_machina_v2s

    Thanks all. As you may have guessed from the announcement of 3.2 release this friday, there will be no more changes to machina. I didn't have enough time to try messing with the node layout and some of the other suggestions here, so I hope that whatever inbalances it has will be balanced through the use of peoples brains in-game

    Thankyou all for your valuable feedback, I hope you continue to enjoy the level!

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