Agamemnon

So I think it's about time we had a discussion of whether or not teams should be fixed during captain's games. At the moment we don't seem to have any consistent standard, which is causing alot of problems.

I happen to think they should be fixed, as I find it frustrating to spend the time picking teams and planning for a game that winds up being decided by uneven teams. However, the most important thing is to get a consistent standard so we at least can agree on what needs to happen in this situation.

Three things that have been brought up in the past that may influence the discussion:

1. The idea that the team that picks second should have the extra player if someone leaves, since they would have the extra when picking from an odd number of people. I personally think that the extra should be on marines regardless, but I wanted to bring this up as it is a criteria that has been mentioned in the past.

2. The idea that teams in captains don't need to be fixed until they're uneven by "more than one". First, I'm not entirely sure what is meant by this, since 8 marines against 7 aliens is still considered even. Does this mean an imbalance in favor of marines must be fixed, but an imbalance in favor of aliens is ok? This seems to make little sense, as captains already favors aliens, given that they are the side that requires more planning. Whatever the intention is, I still don't understand why uneven teams would be more acceptable during captains, as it is by definition a game that more time has been invested in, and therefore it makes little sense to me to allow a captains game to be ruined in a way that we would immediately fix in a normal game.

3. Having the captain select a player to switch rather than using the last player on the scoreboard. This to me makes perfect sense, as the captain is able to pick a player to send that will minimize the damage from switching. Since we have someone in a position of authority who can make this decision, we might as well make use of that. I would also like to add that as this actually makes fixing uneven teams easier in captains, it makes even less sense to consider captains to be an exception to the team size rules.

masterptg

My thoughts are:

If one team picks people or a person who leave during the game, tough luck (pick better people who don't leave :P haha. It is a pick game after all...and if you fail to pick the right people...your fault as a captain).

If the teams are uneven by more than 1 person, even the game by telling the other team captain to assign someone from his team to the other team. The lowest person on the scoreboard might be the one assigned to drop the (or a) hive or go fade or lerk. Let the captain make that decision and give him like 10 seconds.

Kerostasis

In a captains game, each player has more invested in their team then they do in a normal game. I think its worth a little bending of the team-size rules to accomadate that.

We don't bend them by much--"more than one" essentially means the only team-size that isn't corrected is 7 marines vs 8 aliens. And that situation will result in a slight imbalance either way--we just normally judge the imbalance of 8 marines vs 7 aliens to be smaller in magnitude than 8 aliens vs 7 marines, due to the commander.

Further, you can usually expect someone to join and refill the server before long during a captains match. You lose the expectation of having the imbalance fixed instantaneously at the cost of the other team, but you will rarely have to play through the entire 2-game match down by a man.

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bentring

I've always agreed with the 1 man difference is ok in Captains, regardless of which team.

What throws them really off is if a person leaves during or inbetween the round. Another person joins in and jumps on the team with 7. then the other person rejoins and it bumps someone on the opposing team.

We had this happen the other night when Wyz was having trouble w/ drivers(?).

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aka Roland (the Headless Thompson Gunner; not of Gilead)

Zek

I think fixing 2-man or more team imbalances should certainly be mandatory in captains games. It makes the most sense for the captain to be able to choose the person of the least importance to send, but that might result in hard feelings. I think barring that it should just be enforced normally, with the bottom player switching by default unless someone else volunteers(though that player just being unwilling to switch is not a valid reason for someone else to go).

Speaking of team balance, I think the justification of compensating for the commander is a pretty weak one, tiny games aside. The commander is just as useful a unit as a gorge, if not more so. Marines get the extra man on this server because games tend to be alien biased, and that's the reason we should cite if someone asks.

freebirdpat

I think if the difference is 2-man or more, then the opposing captain gets to choose who to send over. Any player that is chosen will probably understand that they are the one that is least useful to the team atm. Either they just dropped hive or spent res, or is the only skulk on the team.

but if the difference is 1-man then the marines just have to suck it up. the rule should not apply at that point because 2 games are played once on each side.

Wyzcrak

Lots of interesting opinions here. Let's not confuse any of them for rules as we continue to discuss.

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